tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post843099753303205192..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Some improved knowledge of major R1b sublineage S116Majuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-31039517352096025972020-06-25T01:10:13.441+02:002020-06-25T01:10:13.441+02:00I'd go with English based on your pic: you don...I'd go with English based on your pic: you don't look Spanish at all. Reminds me a bit of a Basque friend but his father was German, I believe, so not a good trail. Could be Irish also, unsure. <br /><br />What specific marker did they provide you with: L21? If so, that's more common in the Islands (and NW France), but there is no certainty because all branches are somewhat scattered: it was a Bell Beaker era scatter, some 4500 years ago, you also find L21 in Iberia, even if they are rarer. In order to discern something you'd have to test for a much more precise marker, one of more recent expansion. <br /><br />I just downloaded a relevant paper from Academia.edu that might be of use: https://www.academia.edu/24686284/The_phylogenealogy_of_R-L21_four_and_a_half_millennia_of_expansion_and_redistribution?email_work_card=minimal-titleMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-85042910923655657182020-06-23T12:31:25.715+02:002020-06-23T12:31:25.715+02:00Ahora con 23&me, hice tres test, dos a familia...Ahora con 23&me, hice tres test, dos a familiares y uno a mi, fuimos para atrás en vez de hacia adelante, y nos clasificaron como R1b1a2a1a.<br />A la espera de mi str111 de FTDNA. <br />Espero ir un poco más hacia adelante, o que esté un poco más claroIbanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880158288402493978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-60378268557812113932019-08-13T04:33:41.042+02:002019-08-13T04:33:41.042+02:00We are the same, Genotype: S116 Phenotype: Y-DNA S...We are the same, Genotype: S116 Phenotype: Y-DNA Subclade R1b1a2a1a2. Let us talk, markwattam@comcast.net.Mark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-71989891241976383532019-08-13T03:36:28.095+02:002019-08-13T03:36:28.095+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-11648476744110566702019-08-13T03:32:37.568+02:002019-08-13T03:32:37.568+02:00Wattam is my stepfathers name. I do not know my re...Wattam is my stepfathers name. I do not know my real surname, so it makes it difficult to determine, Spain, German, English, Irish.....so on.Mark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-53876258503944088242019-08-13T03:24:04.056+02:002019-08-13T03:24:04.056+02:00markwattam@comcast.netmarkwattam@comcast.netMark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-1714064648883919242019-08-13T03:14:26.663+02:002019-08-13T03:14:26.663+02:00I have also uploaded my data from Ancestry.com to ...I have also uploaded my data from Ancestry.com to GEDMatch.com and other sites.Mark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-67275253954341918562019-08-13T03:12:41.659+02:002019-08-13T03:12:41.659+02:00Sir:
I am searching my Paternal lineage, particula...Sir:<br />I am searching my Paternal lineage, particularly my relatives on that side to include my father, if possible. I have had all my DNA tests, Maternal, Paternal and Autosomal done by DNA Access.com. My Paternal test results from DNA Access is; Genotype: S116 Phenotype: Y-DNA Subclade R1b1a2a1a2. In search of family I also have participated in DNA tests by Ancestry.com, 23&Me and National Geographic Geno 2.0., with similar but not exact results. The "DNA Access" results seem to be the more accurate and scientifically valid. That being said, "DNA Access" demonstrates that I have a higher probability of belonging to the Basque group, with a possibility of belonging to the Irish/Wales group. The results from Ancestry.com and 23&Me and National Geographic demonstrate Irish/Wales/England. Is there a way or some additional research available to help me pin down the geographical location.<br />Mark Wattamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02302054913731503302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-57625526345349001132019-04-06T02:22:36.987+02:002019-04-06T02:22:36.987+02:00Bueno, yo creo que nos entenderíamos perfectamente...Bueno, yo creo que nos entenderíamos perfectamente en castellano.<br />Gracias por la respuesta tanto tiempo después del anterior comentario (2016)Ibanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880158288402493978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-78585972527136647082019-03-15T17:30:20.227+01:002019-03-15T17:30:20.227+01:00That's fine. I think there will be other subcl...That's fine. I think there will be other subclades in Atlantic Europe. Iberia, Vasconia and Ireland have a lot of unclasified S116. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-53862486574622017692019-03-09T19:16:35.979+01:002019-03-09T19:16:35.979+01:00Hello, I am S116 member, my grandfather was from G...Hello, I am S116 member, my grandfather was from Galicia. LivingDNA said me I am S116, at the moment I have not subclade. Ibanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880158288402493978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-66040422786162730112016-12-08T15:52:03.509+01:002016-12-08T15:52:03.509+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-82115315475624133132016-10-18T10:34:17.740+02:002016-10-18T10:34:17.740+02:00Hi John. Sorry for the belated reply but seems I m...Hi John. Sorry for the belated reply but seems I missed your comment back in the day. <br /><br />I have to answer with a question however: what the heck are you talking about? To be more specific, where did you get that nomenclature from? Notice that there is not always a standard nomenclature, particularly if you're getting your data (and possibly mistyping it?) from private DNA testing companies. They may have some info on alleged novel lineages of their own but I generally wait till it is confirmed by academic research or something. Often private lineages are not perfectly identified and they may be just one among many hanging under the same DF27 node, so you would want to ask those who gave you the info and nomenclature first. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-49657256209959014852016-05-17T05:01:52.085+02:002016-05-17T05:01:52.085+02:00Hi have any info on haplogroup Y16018 which is fro...Hi have any info on haplogroup Y16018 which is from D27?JOHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444699445741484691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-14601080834078314942016-05-16T18:00:20.445+02:002016-05-16T18:00:20.445+02:00My data is juxtaposed against an incredibly large ...My data is juxtaposed against an incredibly large database, thus the defined subclade geo-distribution(s) and concentrations as illustrated. One would generally 'assume' such surname lineages, but as Celts migrated, the surname assumption might not be a probability but rather a possibility. <br /><br />However the surname Dáibhís: <br /><br />Mac Dháibhis → Ó Dáibhidh · Ó Dáibhis · Davis · Mac Dháibhidhlast name Davis: <br /><br />Would topically appear to be Welsh and or Irish. My subclade is of Proto Italo Celtic origin. More specifically the Lepontii Tribe. So my surname perplexes me as far as a surname origin and migratory evolution from known DNA archaeological ancestry. <br /><br />You can see my crux I hope. There's far too<br />much historical information missing to assume I believe. <br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />ShaneAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129148154867230037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-32975923405810747152016-05-16T17:59:21.215+02:002016-05-16T17:59:21.215+02:00My data is juxtaposed against an incredibly large ...My data is juxtaposed against an incredibly large database, thus the defined subclade geo-distribution(s) and concentrations as illustrated. One would generally 'assume' such surname lineages, but as Celts migrated, the surname assumption might not be a probability but rather a possibility. <br /><br />However the surname Dáibhís: <br /><br />Mac Dháibhis → Ó Dáibhidh · Ó Dáibhis · Davis · Mac Dháibhidhlast name Davis: <br /><br />Would topically appear to be Welsh and or Irish. My subclade is of Proto Italo Celtic origin. More specifically the Lepontii Tribe. So my surname perplexes me as far as a surname origin and migratory evolution from known DNA archaeological ancestry. <br /><br />You can see my crux I hope. There's far too<br />much historical information missing to assume I believe. <br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />ShaneAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129148154867230037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-59105213471150606832016-05-12T04:21:15.789+02:002016-05-12T04:21:15.789+02:00R1b-S116 is the most common haplogroup in Western ...R1b-S116 is the most common haplogroup in Western Europe. That's what we can know without further downstream testing. You probably want to try comparing STR haplotypes in commercial databases for possible distant relatives. If your surname is, say, English, then probably comes from England, if Irish from Ireland, if Basque from the Basque Country, if Spanish from Spain, if French from France, if Italian from Italy, if German from Germany. It's not helping you much, I know, but that's what there is with the private DNA genealogy testing, which can well be described if not as "fraud", at least as making unrealistic promises. Anyhow, keep searching, you may find something. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-60594318726064115342016-05-11T23:05:38.264+02:002016-05-11T23:05:38.264+02:00I am confirmed R1b1a2a1a2 S116 and have entire lis...I am confirmed R1b1a2a1a2 S116 and have entire lists of country locations of genetic distances where my DNA is located, to include 10 villages where upwards of 92% of R1b1a2a1a2 exist in Spain et al, would you be able to ascertain migrations from this type of data? And would it be useful to your studies?<br /><br />btw - Thank you for your incredibly in-depth information!<br /><br /><br />EXAMPLE OF MY DATA:<br /><br />The terminal Y-DNA SNP marker for Shane _____________ is S116. Population studies to date have found that the S116 marker which defines Y-DNA Subclade R1b1a2a1a2 is found in the highest concentration in South/Western Gipuzkoa, Spain. The distribution of the S116 marker and its ancestors is as follows:<br /><br />South/Western Gipuzkoa, Spain 92.99% > Bizkaia, Spain 89.47% > Gipuzkoa, Spain 87.24% > Ireland South 87% > Western Bizkaia, Spain 84.21% > Central/Western Navarre, Spain 83.34% > Roncal, Spain 83.01% > North/Western Navarre, Spain 82.35%<br /><br />The studies were conducted by sampling the DNA of indigenous populations and determining the percentage of each indigenous population which is positive for the SNP marker S116 and its direct ancestors.<br /><br />Thank you!<br /><br />Shane<br />Colorado, USASLOW HEMP LLC https://www.blogger.com/profile/07689992228622075638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-29136058311408376152015-08-28T18:01:48.959+02:002015-08-28T18:01:48.959+02:00I'll try to write something by the weekend but...I'll try to write something by the weekend but I won't probably say anything I haven't said in the comments above, mostly because the data is what it is and other than underlying the apparent regional or non-regional differences that appear in the PCA, there's little more to say without the fine detail that the supp. materials could maybe give. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-81684452501791281552015-08-27T20:28:25.642+02:002015-08-27T20:28:25.642+02:00Most of the Corsican living in metropolitan Franc...Most of the Corsican living in metropolitan France are located in PACA (Provence-Alpes-Côtes-d'Azur region ) and Paris area. <br />The samples are from the "Three-City study" and the three cities involved are Bordeaux, Dijon and Montpellier. They are not part of PACA and Paris area. <br />I guess it is the major reason of the absence of Corsiacn samples.<br /><br />I am in a hurry to read your articleon this study...J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-86024302138547846072015-08-27T12:34:05.232+02:002015-08-27T12:34:05.232+02:00According to this: http://audesp.free.fr/Publicati...According to this: http://audesp.free.fr/Publications.html , it is a pre-print, so the supp. material are probably not yet published anywhere.<br /><br />Anyhow, I'll write something on it later because I think it is very important to peek at the "French" genetic structure and understand it as much as possible for the comprehension of all-European genetics and origins. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64964372751307747962015-08-27T12:28:19.689+02:002015-08-27T12:28:19.689+02:00It is indeed a very interesting study, thank you v...It is indeed a very interesting study, thank you very much Jean. Particularly because there are not too much data coming from France (except some samples in wider contexts) and this is the first such autosomal analysis of the Hexagon I have ever seen. <br /><br />It is particularly notable that the most differentiated region is the SW (SO) and that is for sure attributable to Basque/Gascon difference. The region includes some non-Gascon areas however, like Tolousain and Dordogne and is interesting in this regard that much of the overlap is rather with the Mediterranean (Provence-Languedoc-Corsica) region rather than others, all of which makes good sense to me. <br /><br />While PC1 is very clear in this aspect, PC2 and PC3 are rather amorphous, indicating that the rest of France or "France proper" can well be considered a single population region. PC2 however does suggest that some areas (although impossible to discern on plain sight) deviate from the norm, notably: (1a) a GE (Grand Est?, NE) cluster, which may be rather German-like, (1b) a GO (Grand Ouest?, Mid-West) cluster, which probably indicates a Breton exception, which may be somewhat British-like, and (2) a more amorphous GE, GO and IDF (Paris), which deviates in the opposite direction but not in the Mediterranean nor Basque/Gascon one, so it may be a group of "purer proto-French" maybe. PC3 only shows a weak GE deviation that may again correspond to Bretons. <br /><br />I'm a bit surprised of not perceiving any Corsican difference, really (the samples are all from people born in the 1930s, what means that Corsica was still not heavily resettled as it is now). Probably this owes to the PCA not being able to differentiate such a small sample and I would really like to see the Admixture graph for contrast and complementary info. Do you think it is in the supp. materials? I need a link to the main publication page.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-15711280893791157422015-08-27T08:51:58.772+02:002015-08-27T08:51:58.772+02:00Hi Maju;
Yesterday, by chance, i found this very i...Hi Maju;<br />Yesterday, by chance, i found this very interesting study " The fine-scale genetic structure of the French population. "<br />I failed to email it to you, so i post it here. <br />Regards<br />http://audesp.free.fr/Publis/FineScaleStructureFrance_StPierre.pdfJ.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-14390968086574400942015-08-02T13:31:33.276+02:002015-08-02T13:31:33.276+02:00Erratum: "roughly =(1+2)/X". Not my best...Erratum: "roughly =(1+2)/X". Not my best math formula. Actually should be [IE blood]/x+[Neolithic blood]/y, just that the impact of the IE invasion seems (in mtDNA at least) so dramatic that x=y, what seems to imply (with the available data on hand) a massive genocide, i.e. a 50% replacement. However the Y-DNA is mostly Iberian, what is quite odd. The matter definitely needs more research but mtDNA-wise, the impression is that of a massive demic replacement from an Unetice-like or similar {low H & high "Neolithic" clades} source. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-33108014625638830442015-08-02T13:23:05.169+02:002015-08-02T13:23:05.169+02:00"High frequencies subclades R1b but with a fe..."High frequencies subclades R1b but with a few subclades in the West".<br /><br />Don't think R1b, think R-L11 or R-S116 and R-U106. There's no more point of talking of R1b as there is of talking of P, K or F. <br /><br />"The population vacuum of II thousand BC in Iberia W and other areas of Western Europe"<br /><br />I don't see any "population vacuum". On the contrary: 2000 BCE was a very dynamic period.<br /><br />"lactose tolerance gradient from N to S Europe"<br /><br />There is no such cline. The European LP allele is concentrated in three focuses: Britain/Ireland, the Basque Country and parts of Scandinavia and dilutes outwards from them (→ <a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_x6Y4ZgFsZdY/S3oQspjjm_I/AAAAAAAAAO4/CWzSvNUvPOg/s400/LPgenotype.png" rel="nofollow">map</a>).<br /><br />...<br /><br />"the most plausible explanation (...) is that there was a sudden expansion of settlers arrived from Central Europe during the Bronze Age".<br /><br />Obviously there were invasions (Celts, Romans) in the latest Bronze Age and Iron Age. That's undeniable on the basis of archaeology and historically known linguistic replacement. <br /><br />But <a href="http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2013/09/basque-and-other-european-origins.html" rel="nofollow">we can see in the ancient mtDNA</a> how Basques continue pretty much the same through those convoluted times, while probably Portuguese instead suffer dramatic change which I only dare to attribute to the Celtic invasion. This Celtic invasion from Central Europe (via NE and Central Iberia in a process that took centuries) seems to do exactly the opposite of what you say:<br />→ lowers mtDNA H frequencies, from c. 80% to c. 40% <br />→ probably also lowered LP and R1b frequencies<br /><br />Although I know that the data from that study of mine is quickly being overwhelmed by new data, the substance stands and we see:<br /><br />1. Unetice (East Germany): high JT+N(xR)<br />2. Neo-/Chalcolithic Portuguese: very high H <br />3. Modern Portuguese: roughly =(1+2)/X. Portuguese lose lots of H and gain JT+N(xR). (Basques instead remain mostly static although a lesser increas in JT is also apparent).<br /><br />My impression is that in Portugal there was around 50% of Unetice-like Celtic (and others?) immigration, which probably made a total genocide and incorporated like 50% of the modern genetic pool... but with the exact opposite traits that you claim: <br />→ dramatic reduction of mtDNA H, increase of "Neolithic" mtDNA lineages (JT and N(xR))<br />→ probably also meant reduction in LP, Rh⁻ and R1b frequencies but this is not directly documented AFAIK<br />Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com