tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post7370379325617964102..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Y-DNA from AfghanistanMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-23563965527815036232021-02-13T20:24:30.972+01:002021-02-13T20:24:30.972+01:00If you see Hazara dna results they don't clust...If you see Hazara dna results they don't cluster with Iranians at all, if Hazaras were mixed with Iranians than surely their genetic distance would be a lot closer. I think their common haplogroups came from a common ancestor rather than from one or the other. The only exception would be Syed Hazaras who are known for their Iranian origins.AAAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05702646346319292349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-33656265633579987662020-11-23T10:43:05.136+01:002020-11-23T10:43:05.136+01:00Care to explain why?Care to explain why?Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-88693901832647772362020-11-21T03:22:45.991+01:002020-11-21T03:22:45.991+01:00Haplogroup R1B and J2 from Hazaras come from Turkm...Haplogroup R1B and J2 from Hazaras come from Turkmens not Iranians.AAAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12246534327566212261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-2108192761138481032020-05-13T08:55:43.762+02:002020-05-13T08:55:43.762+02:00https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthaliteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HephthalitesMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-39845535614646267092020-05-13T08:55:07.016+02:002020-05-13T08:55:07.016+02:00I'd rather go with Turkic influence, which is ...I'd rather go with Turkic influence, which is much older and much more persistent along time. Compare the 33% C3 (old nomenclature, now it is C2 I believe) of Hazaras with the 41% of Uzbeks in the same area. Mongols did not make such a major impact, Turks on the other hand did in various waves, beginning in that area with the Hephtalites (White Huns), following with the Seljuks, and then also as main constituent of the superficially "Mongol" states such as the Ilkhanate, Tamerlan Khaganate, Mughal Empire, etc. You can't discard some Mongol element but you can't either easily pinpoint it as distinct from the Turkic one (same origin, similar genetics). <br /><br />There is a Moghol (Mongol) people of Afghanistan but it is very small and nearly extinct and is located in two villages of Herat (i.e. not in Hazarajat). They do claim descent from Genghis Khan troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moghol_people<br /><br />Similarly there's an autonomous republic in Southern Russia, near the Caspian Sea, Kalmykia, that is inhabited by descendants of the Golden Horde: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmykia <br /><br />So I'd think that, if they'd have any direct relation with the Mongols proper, we'd know it, instead if they have been there since the Hephtalites, that's a more obscure and older era, so it's easier that the tracing has been lost, more so as the Hephtalites seem to have used local iranian languages and not just Turkic, blending with the natives and having Afghanistan as their core realm. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-81454875717295076752020-05-11T15:20:39.994+02:002020-05-11T15:20:39.994+02:00Do you think that Hazaras are Mongols. Do you think that Hazaras are Mongols. Nayibeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648203449147919300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-18426740203395479892019-08-11T09:55:50.347+02:002019-08-11T09:55:50.347+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tadjikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10896925867054219663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-26076695965264241762019-08-07T17:27:22.549+02:002019-08-07T17:27:22.549+02:00The Y DNA Haplogroup L People are descendent's...The Y DNA Haplogroup L People are descendent's of Saba called Sabaeans according to the Bible.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318763766236730289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-25909497838598880322017-08-03T19:10:17.307+02:002017-08-03T19:10:17.307+02:00This paper does not discuss mtDNA, only Y-DNA. Whi...This paper does not discuss mtDNA, only Y-DNA. Which is your source?Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-40225936073344017302017-08-02T05:40:05.224+02:002017-08-02T05:40:05.224+02:00Hazara does have 7.5% of African mtDNA LHazara does have 7.5% of African mtDNA LAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468499232271041305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-85242367298944758772013-12-28T03:51:09.852+01:002013-12-28T03:51:09.852+01:00Hasan: this study is focused in Afghanistan and AF...Hasan: this study is focused in Afghanistan and AFAIK the first one sampling inside this country, so it's only logical that they ignored these groups from Pakistan. There are plenty of genetic studies about Pakistan, including Pashtuns and Hazaras (not sure if that specific group you mention). <br /><br />These pops. from Pakistan are shown in some graphics like the PCA, where both Hazara populations are rather close to each other, although it's true that Afghan Hazaras (4) are more outliers than Pakistani ones (18). <br /><br />About the "strange" haplogroup B it was later spotted in important frequencies Hormozgan (Iran), so that's probably the direct source. How it reached to Hormuz is another story. <br /><br />See: → http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2012/07/iranian-y-dna.htmlMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-25306622497389589532013-12-28T02:29:51.103+01:002013-12-28T02:29:51.103+01:00I want to mention something about Hazaras. Firstly...I want to mention something about Hazaras. Firstly, 32% R1b1b1-M73 come Hazaras of Pakistan. They migrated from Southern most part of Hazarajat named Ghazni or exactly Jaghory tribe about 100 years ago to Pakistan. The tribe is one of the largest group of all Hazaras with more mixed features with nearby Pashton or Tajik people and by the migration, this mixing even more evolved. So, no surprising this results for me as a Hazara. Unfortunately, the new study missed this large group of Jaghori or Ghazni Hazaras and only very limited samples have been taken.<br />Abut the E and J haplogroups, it is important to consider the direct and historically important religiously relation of hazaras and Iranian, both Persian speaking Shia Muslims. The only local who could inter the the community were Shias mostly religious elders and clerics or Turkik people named Qizilbash. About strange B group also important to note that 3 samples found in the western hazara tribe named Day-zangi, which zangi in Persian means Black, but they are not black people nowadays!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00453362338962305637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-66104043642987395282013-05-13T00:53:15.021+02:002013-05-13T00:53:15.021+02:00The sound coincidence may be just that: a coincide...The sound coincidence may be just that: a coincidence. The Khazars anyhow were not Jews by ancestry but Turkic converts. I'm not sure where do you see the "Hebrew lineages" either.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-63477025620490442802013-05-12T23:39:13.254+02:002013-05-12T23:39:13.254+02:00Khazar > Hazara Too obvious? Some Hebrew genes...Khazar > Hazara Too obvious? Some Hebrew genes mixed with Asiatic in the Khazar Empire, in the silk road trade c.650-1,000CE. Some clues/connections may come from dispersed 'bukharian jews' (bukharianjews.com), who preserve much of the old culture such as a language cross between Dari Persian and Turkoman.<br /> Mosarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292045536130031899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-86746817365709163712012-10-15T11:20:06.142+02:002012-10-15T11:20:06.142+02:00It's not just any Iranians, much less all Iran...It's not just any Iranians, much less all Iranians, it's just those from Hormuz without previously known African ancestry (i.e. not Afro-Iranians). <br /><br />I must insist on that because to my eyes it does look like Hormuz could be at the origin but the origin could be recent Indian Ocean trade routs (not likely), more ancient ones (maybe from the time when Nubia was quite prosperous) or even a prehistoric residue (??) Only careful analysis of the haplotypes can give some answers, if at all. <br /><br />It is important to notice that the more B a population has in Hormuz, the less of other more typical African lineages (E1b1a), so it's still anomalous and in need of a good explanation.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-7064062641928111132012-10-14T08:39:10.523+02:002012-10-14T08:39:10.523+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.MasterBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116351276222734924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-44757578976150372912012-10-14T08:04:59.882+02:002012-10-14T08:04:59.882+02:00THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING
----------------------...THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING <br />------------------------<br /><br />Haplogroup B in Hazara are from Iranian men. That's because Hazara today are indeed mixture of Mongolians and Iranians. It's even more obvious when you compared their Y-DNA chromosome. See how J1, J2, R1a1a, E1b1b1c1 are all in Iranians people in significant frequencies especially J?<br /><br />Haplogroup B Y-DNA has been found in 3% (3/117) in Iranian aswell. 2.3% (Bandari) and 8.2% (Gheshmi). Iranians also have African mtDNA from 3% L3 ON average but higher than 8% in some Iran province. Most Iran province ussually have only 3% African Y-DNA and mtDNA.<br /><br />When Arabs conquered Iran in 6th century which was 700 years way before the creation of the Mongol empire. Obviously Iranian already mixed African slaves but 700 years later I doubt they would have looked anything like African but like modern day Iranians.<br /><br />-------------------------------------------<br /><br />Like I said, let's not forget Hazara are mixture of Mongolians and Iranians.<br /><br />Hazara have more mongoloid Y-DNA than Mongoloid mtDNA.<br />Hazara have more Caucasian mtDNA than Caucasoid Y-DNA<br />But at the same time they have more Caucasoid Y-DNA it's just caucasoid mtDNA is 20% higher<br /><br /><br />Apart from C3, O3, Q, N ect . Haplogroup C3 is highest because it's from the Mongols but the 2nd highest Haplogroup J is the highest in Iranians, E1b1b1c1 and R1a which is present in moderate frequencies in Hazara just like significantly in IraniansMasterBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116351276222734924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-75757583801850292292012-10-14T04:11:56.638+02:002012-10-14T04:11:56.638+02:00African descent is maybe plausible (there are comm...African descent is maybe plausible (there are communities and individuals with recent African ancestry in Pakistan, the Persian Gulf or even India) but the lineage in question is anomalous and too diverse to be a recent founder effect.<br /><br />Haplogroup B is found concentrated in Central Africa and is most common among Pygmies, being rather rare in other populations (see for example the maps of frequency at <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/106/48/20174.full" rel="nofollow">Chiaroni 2009</a>). It is hard to explain how B has caused a small founder effect with relatively high diversity in Afghanistan and with it no E(xE1b1b1), the dominant group of lineages in Africa South of the Sahara, arrived from the same zone. <br /><br />However more recently, Y-DNA B <a href="http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/iranian-y-dna.html" rel="nofollow">has been found</a> at low frequencies also in Saudi Arabia and, at higher frequencies, at Hormuzgan (Iran, the area of the historical trading city of Hormuz). Interestingly Afro-Iranians from Hormuz have nothing of it, and instead other populations have it at 2.3% (Bandari) and 8.2% (Gheshmi). <br /><br />The proportions in these three Hormuz populations are effectively inverse for B and E1b1a1, which dominates (25%) the Afro-Iranians. This really suggests that the arrival of Y-DNA B is unrelated to the arrival of Afrodescendants with the Indian Ocean slave (and other) trade. I am guessing that it might have arrived with traders from what is now Sudan, maybe even in pre-Islamic times (Nubia) - but hard to say. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-60231733887622026062012-10-14T03:15:16.830+02:002012-10-14T03:15:16.830+02:00Maju is correct. There are two distinct Hazara pe...Maju is correct. There are two distinct Hazara people. Hazaras in Pakistan are a multitude of different ethnicties (Afghan speakers, Hindko, Turkic) the Afghan Hazaras who are distinctly Mongolian-Turkic derived. <br /><br />African descent may be uncommon, but not implausible. Afghanistan was a major trade route for goods and also people. There was a popular slave trade in Central Asia and there could have been some implants either from India or the Middle East.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-49336716985750021352012-06-12T22:49:44.221+02:002012-06-12T22:49:44.221+02:00Sorry, I have no good explanation.
My first thou...Sorry, I have no good explanation. <br /><br />My first thought was to imagine them as anomalous but somehow fitting fossils of the Eurasian colonization process: I paralleled Hazara B with East Asian DE (D) and Hazara M1 with its South/Central/West Eurasian relative under MNOPS (P and its subclades Q and R). <br /><br />But of course it can be an error or can have other explanations. <br /><br />I am imagining anyhow that Snegupta's Hazaras are not from Afghanistan but from Pakistan, right? For long most of the info about Afghan ethnicities came from their Pakistani relatives. In fact I think that this is the first Y-DNA study of Afghans as such - correct me if I'm wrong.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-25920919568755895682012-06-12T22:29:01.792+02:002012-06-12T22:29:01.792+02:00That may explain the presence of haplogroup O3 in ...That may explain the presence of haplogroup O3 in Spain. But how do we explain the disappearance of haplogroup R1b1b1-M73 in this new study, as shown from the last study it had an high 32% frequency but this new study shows completely 0%. <br /><br />Haplogroup E1b1b1c1 is another strange marker not found anywhere in afghan ethnic accept in the Hazara, but it most likely originated from the Ashkenazi jews who also has 10% of E1b1b1c1, this may also explain it's presence of Q1b in Hazara which is found in 5% in Ashkenazi jews. The Sephardic Jews also have 10% frequency of E1b1b1c1, but it's highest frequencies is in area of dead sea Jordan at 31.1%. It's also found 5% in Turkey, 8.1% in Oman, 10% Galarcia/Spain. It's also at about 11% - 15% in Ethiopian Jews, I was thinking maybe this B marker came from Ethiopia jews but normal Ethiopians only has 3.9% - 4.6%, and haplogroup haplogrou B it's non-existant in Ethiopian Jews and even normal Ethiopian has ussually only 2.3% - 5.4%<br /><br />-----> LINK Y-DNA haplogroup of Ethiopians <br /><br />http://ethiohelix.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/ydna-haplogroup-distribution-in.html<br /><br /><br />Hazara has no African mtDNA but has an high frequency of 65% West Eurasian/South India mtDNA and 35% East Eurasian mtDNA. But in Pakistan an ethnic group called the Siddi who are mixture of African and local Pakistani. They have E3a at a frequency distribution of only 5% but mtDNA analysis reveals approx 40% L1a, L2a, L2b, L2d. But even they have no presence of haplogroup B or M1.MasterBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116351276222734924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-73525684596322550912012-06-12T18:34:57.881+02:002012-06-12T18:34:57.881+02:00The Japanese embassy episode is from the earliest ...The Japanese embassy episode is from the earliest 17th century in fact. There's an article in English:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_TsunenagaMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64708045163379329512012-06-12T18:32:31.851+02:002012-06-12T18:32:31.851+02:00O3 in Spain should not be so strange in very small...O3 in Spain should not be so strange in very small amounts or in specific locations. It can be Filipino or even Japanese. There was in the 16th century a formal Japanese embassy near Seville, at Coria del Río, and apparently they left desdendants among the people whose surname is "Japón", Japan in Spanish (see <a href="http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap%C3%B3n_%28apellido%29" rel="nofollow">the Spanish Wikipedia</a>). <br /><br />As for the Hazara, we can't 100% discard an error but it may also be correct. I don't feel able to judge.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-44628699024498939642012-06-12T17:31:45.026+02:002012-06-12T17:31:45.026+02:00It has to sample error on the B and M1 part. The s...It has to sample error on the B and M1 part. The strange thing is I also came across haplogroup O3 in Spain which is really weird. It's really strange that R1b1b1-M73 it's found in high frequencies in this 2006 study Sengupta et al. (2006) with an frequency of 32% but it's found 0% in this study of yours. Also Haplogroup O3 another marker that came from Mongols it's not on your study but it's 8% in this Hazara study. I don't know about the other groups, but something is definitely wrong with this Hazara study. <br /><br />Sengupta et al. (2006), <br />10/25 = 40% C3-M217 <br />1/25 = 4% I2b1b-M379<br />1/25 = 4% J2a-M410<br />2/25 = 8% O3-M122<br />1/25 = 4% Q1a1-M120<br />1/25 = 4% Q1b-M378<br />8/25 = 32% R1b1b1-M73<br />1/25 = 4% R2-M124MasterBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116351276222734924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-36586626221379193712012-06-12T17:30:09.235+02:002012-06-12T17:30:09.235+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.MasterBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116351276222734924noreply@blogger.com