tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post6898879458515842170..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Iruña-Veleia: civic association demands that analysis are madeMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-58926089584126651852010-10-02T13:29:20.343+02:002010-10-02T13:29:20.343+02:00Another possibility is that Basque or rather Vasco...Another possibility is that Basque or rather Vascoid is, to the exclusion of Iberian maybe, a Megalithic culture language. This would also be consistent with Venneman's theory, because the Magdalenian and Megalithic zones overlap a lot, but the latter also enters Italy, where some of the evidence is found. <br /><br />Another explanation for the Vascoid influence in Italy could be that Chassey-La Lagozza culture was Vascoid speaking with an origin in SE France (all this would be proto-Ligurian). <br /><br />Finally another explanation could be that Vascoid languages spread with Neolithic (all branches at least West of the Balcans). Some lesser but still striking Vasconic evidence is also found in the Balcans (Ibar and Hebros rivers, Slavic gora for mountain...) so I would not totally exclude that Vasconic spread with Neolithic, only to be wiped out later by Indoeuropean. In this case it'd be unrelated to R1b, it'd be a new language and could be fit very well with the NE Caucasian or just North Caucasian hypotheses. <br /><br />We can only find out, looking dispassionately to all the various evidence and not hiding it in any case.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-36799807202411387432010-10-02T13:20:46.950+02:002010-10-02T13:20:46.950+02:00What is clear is that authenticity of the findings...What is clear is that authenticity of the findings cannot be even debated from a purely linguistic viewpoint. It is an archaeological matter and all linguists can do is to discuss the findings as such, not their authenticity. <br /><br />I've got very pissed off at Linguistics in general with all this. It is, at least in the State of Spain, a very hierarchized zone, more scholastic than really scientific. <br /><br />Anyhow, I am of the opinion that Iberian is related to Basque. And, I don't think this changes much, even if Iglesias does not feel comfortable with what the findings imply for his theories. <br /><br />What I do not think is that Basque derives from Iberian but just that they share origin, probably in the Late Paleolithic, Epipaleolithic or, the latest, in Neolithic.<br /><br />Only in this last case would Basque be derived from Iberian. The other scenarios would make Iberian the derived language and they are indirectly supported by R1b1b2a1a2 (P312) spread, which looks totally centered in the Pyrenean region, <a href="http://leherensuge.blogspot.com/2010/08/r1b1b2a1-is-almost-unique-of-west.html" rel="nofollow">as discussed recently at Leherensuge</a> and is highly consistent with post-LGM (or otherwise Franco-Cantabrian region originated) expansion.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-54321309140338438812010-10-02T12:50:18.540+02:002010-10-02T12:50:18.540+02:00I was very skeptical about the Veleia findings as ...I was very skeptical about the Veleia findings as I was somehow convinced by Lakarra and Gorrotxategi's explainations. A fact is that after reading Iglesias, it was clear that Lakarra and Gorrotxategi dismissed the findings as such discoveries were destroying their own theories about the Celtic past of these lands or the evolution of the Basque language, which is not intellectually acceptable. Even though I believe that Indo-European languages left a lasting influence in most Iberia and Gaul, I'm also firmly convinced that celticism is a bit of an illness.<br /><br />Iglesias can be subject to mysticism sometimes, he's a great linguist but not without his flaws, more precisely, I'm a bit irritated by his "Caucasian" fantasies and I find that he's lacking in Romance linguistics. Yet, his article about the Veleia findinds is reasonable and learned. See his website :<br /><br />http://www.ikerketak.com/<br /><br />As for Iberian and Basque, I don't know if I already gave you that <a href="http://artxiker.ccsd.cnrs.fr/index.php?halsid=2vgrsqmj6t48qubj1vg194fq60&view_this_doc=artxibo-00465824&version=1" rel="nofollow">link</a> but Basque linguist Orpustan has somehow proved that both languages shared many structures.Heraushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07032921971763481466noreply@blogger.com