tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post556797690858537244..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Basque mtDNAMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-5439071686249857012020-01-12T04:54:20.872+01:002020-01-12T04:54:20.872+01:00Can anyone help me with some more information on h...Can anyone help me with some more information on h3m? And if this is common or rare among the Basque regions? CatDanielshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01529889784482602497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-60298607621603420462019-03-09T14:26:56.408+01:002019-03-09T14:26:56.408+01:00To Sarah and Iban: H sublineages with high numbers...To Sarah and Iban: H sublineages with high numbers are all rare lineages, it's doubtful you'll find anything of info on them other than what you already know. Haplogroup H is one of two massive star-like structures (lots of sublineages hanging directly from the same node) in the Human mtDNA tree, the other one being the M node, which I associate to early Human (sapiens) expansion in Asia. <br /><br />The why of the super-star in the H node is not clear yet but I'm of the opinion that it must reflect one of the early (and very fast) H. sapiens expansions in West Eurasia, between c. 50,000 and c. 32.000 BP. <br /><br />See this: https://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2010/10/mtdna-stars-notes.html<br /><br />And also this for the complexity of understanding the chronology of branches with what appear as very different mutation rates, such as H and its "sister" U: https://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2011/06/mitochondrial-dna-and-molecular-clock.htmlMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64930093538507174442019-02-20T11:34:33.277+01:002019-02-20T11:34:33.277+01:00Aupa, yo tengo haplogrupo mt H53, y lo poco que se...Aupa, yo tengo haplogrupo mt H53, y lo poco que se de el es que está en algunos vascos, polacos, bielorrusos, alemanes, irlandeses, tuareg, mozabitas y uigures. <br />Poco o nada más he podido encontrar. <br />Sabes o conoces algo más de ese haplogrupo. <br />Mila eskerIbanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880158288402493978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-67244326953260550792014-07-17T10:07:30.985+02:002014-07-17T10:07:30.985+02:00Right now I can't say about U5a1a1 among Basqu...Right now I can't say about U5a1a1 among Basques. As you can see in the details above, all U (K excepted) is treated as the same thing in this study and older studies I know of were certainly not as precise as you seem to need re. subhaplogroup identification.<br /><br />I know that U5 and U5a (no further subhaplogroup identification) has been found in Basque ancient DNA and that in some cases it has been claimed to fit with modern local lineages. Specifically:<br />→ U5 in Erralla (Magdalenian, 1/1), the same sequence exists today in the area<br />→ U5 in Marizulo (Neolithic, 1/1)<br />→ U5a in Fuente Hoz (Neolithic 1/6), along with 3 U* and 2 H.<br />→ U5a in Urtiaga (Bronze, 1/2), the other was H.<br />→ also U5b1 in Aizpea (Epipaleolithic, 1/1) and U* in Paternabidea (Neolithic, 1/9)<br /><br />ref. http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2012/04/ancient-mitochondrial-dna-from-basque.html<br /><br />As you see, nothing specific enough to satisfy your curiosity. U5 may have existed in Europe since Solutrean times (arguably detected in Andalusia) and definitely since the Epipaleolithic (from Portugal to the Volga, dominant in Central and Eastern Europe along with U4 but not in Iberia, where H was more important), with older detection in Central European Magdalenian. But jumping from generic U5 to your specific request seems a bit difficult, more so when not all studies are so detailed, sorry. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-89857263216317834512014-07-17T03:58:31.661+02:002014-07-17T03:58:31.661+02:00Anyone know whether U5a1a1 has been found among bo...Anyone know whether U5a1a1 has been found among both ancient and present day Basques?<br />If so from what locations?<br />Any reply/replies would be most appreciated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-4855816446883011162014-07-17T03:43:06.155+02:002014-07-17T03:43:06.155+02:00Curious, has the Haplogroup U5a1a1 found within an...Curious, has the Haplogroup U5a1a1 found within ancient/present Basque populations? If so what percentage and location/s?<br />Any reply/replies would be most appreciated.<br />Wondering because of A negative blood type.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-12831807178364287422014-07-17T03:40:01.859+02:002014-07-17T03:40:01.859+02:00Is the Haplogroup U5a1a1 also found within ancient...Is the Haplogroup U5a1a1 also found within ancient/present day Basque populations?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-47806805113022403662013-07-04T13:47:20.588+02:002013-07-04T13:47:20.588+02:00Anyone able to help me out with information on H59...Anyone able to help me out with information on H59? I tried to post about this just now and it wouldn't let me. Was looking for information on it as the link Caroline suggested above says I am an exact match of H59 maternal haplogroup, not H, as 23andme suggests. Any help would be appreciated. Please contact me. dealingdreams@hotmail.com - thanks, SarahAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10391476725924541877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-54029010484853264812013-06-20T17:13:55.658+02:002013-06-20T17:13:55.658+02:00Can't say much more, honestly. It would seem f...Can't say much more, honestly. It would seem from your first link that H58 is found also (occasionally) in Norway and England (although this one, H58a, may well be yourself, right?) This seems pretty normal to me and fits with the patterns of other widespread H sublineages, for example H1, which is found concentrated towards the Atlantic coast of Europe but spans, in notable frequencies, from Karelia to the Sahara (Tuaregs). <br /><br />The frequency of H58 in the historical Basque area is of 3/908, a mere 0.33%. Even in the particular subpopulations where it is found it does not exceed 2% (1.6-1.9%), so it is most difficult to reach any conclusions, especially when this lineage has not been formally studied (i.e. with random samples) in other populations as of now. All that we can say as of now is that at least one area of (very limited) concentration of this lineage is around Araba (Álava) province. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-37416219463518447272013-06-20T16:31:28.566+02:002013-06-20T16:31:28.566+02:00Oops- http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/Oops- http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02317044088768736415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64844785455792026972013-06-20T16:30:40.504+02:002013-06-20T16:30:40.504+02:00I messed up the link. Here's the link, but you...I messed up the link. Here's the link, but you have to input your 23andme mtDNA into it to get any output. <br /><br />Here were my exact results, below. The only other things I've see referencing H58a<br />were here (in drop down menu, and stating source was Salisbury, England!) http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtdna_hstar/default.aspx?section=mtmap<br />and here, http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/lists/behar2012b_2.htm where a guy seems to be collating all the info from the same paper as mentioned above. <br /><br />The Behar Data: <br />JQ702375 Behar Haplogroup H58a 07-APR-2012<br />T152C A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A4769G C5318T A8860G T9950C G13145A A15326G G15466A T15721C C16192T T16519C <br /><br />My data:<br />Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:<br /><br />1) H58a<br /><br />Defining Markers for haplogroup H58a:<br />HVR2: 263G<br />CR: 750G 1438G 4769G 8860G 15326G 15466A 15721C<br />HVR1:<br /><br />Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H58a (plus extra markers):<br />H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 15466A ⇨ H58 ⇨ 15721C ⇨ H58a ⇨ 16390A (16519C)<br /><br />Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:<br />Matches(8): 263G 750G 1438G 4769G 8860G 15326G 15466A 15721C<br />Extras(1): 16390A (16519C) <br /><br />Seems identical. Strange! Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02317044088768736415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-5198381492434607012013-06-20T12:07:32.371+02:002013-06-20T12:07:32.371+02:00Three individuals carry H58 in this sample in fact...Three individuals carry H58 in this sample in fact: one in Gipuzkoa, one in Araba and another one in La Rioja.<br /><br />"am I then descended from the Basque people?"<br /><br />Not necessarily. It is very possible that H58 exists in other populations as well. However, no matter how much I search, I can't find specific data on this lineage. This is surely just product of the rarity and relative novelty of the haplogroup, not being tested for in most studies. <br /><br />As for the link, it does not seem to work for me (some missing data, it says). You may want to download or take a screenshot and upload it to Googledocs or some other cloud-like space.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-66104035358580228932013-06-20T07:56:20.602+02:002013-06-20T07:56:20.602+02:00Hi there. The H58 seems to be quite rare. Only two...Hi there. The H58 seems to be quite rare. Only two examples above (I did a ctrl-f to find them.) If my haplogroup is also H58, (it is) am I then descended from the Basque people? This is news to me. I just did a 23andme test and further analyzed the data here. http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/mthap.cgiCarolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02317044088768736415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-16578705186232248132012-04-10T20:13:37.134+02:002012-04-10T20:13:37.134+02:00While I'm unsure of the exact details, the gen...While I'm unsure of the exact details, the general notion is for a haplo<b>group</b> to be a <b>group</b> of related haplotypes. If "H1j9" (so far not recognized as such haplogroup at PhyloTree - unofficial by most widely recognized reference today) does not meet the requisites, then it will be considered H1j* (by the moment).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-84760299514351254282012-04-10T18:42:39.262+02:002012-04-10T18:42:39.262+02:00Thanks for the clarification. I read a criteria fo...Thanks for the clarification. I read a criteria for the "three sample" rule is that not only are they not to be related lineages (i.e. documented), but also the signature must NOT be identical. The latter in theory disqualifies my and the Guatemalan sample to be treated individually. But that is not the issue at the moment, since I am still trying to get him to submit his RASTA to Ian for inclusion in GenBank, to be considered at all as a potential "third private sample".Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-41828591558067878682012-04-10T18:28:34.475+02:002012-04-10T18:28:34.475+02:00Also in Behar 2012b, they argue that a haplogroup ...Also in Behar 2012b, they argue that a haplogroup to be considered as such must have at least three private lineages or be otherwise strongly justified, that may be a reason why the 2626C clade is not yet listed in PhyloTree (it'd be "private", right?) But can't say for sure.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-78052193538306313662012-04-10T18:22:48.415+02:002012-04-10T18:22:48.415+02:00If you look at PhyloTree (R0 page), all H1j sequen...If you look at PhyloTree (<a href="http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm" rel="nofollow">R0 page</a>), all H1j sequences, except H1j1 are referenced to Behar 2012b, which incidentally is <a href="http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929712001462" rel="nofollow">a freely accessible paper</a> (in the worst case all AJHG papers are accessible six months after publication), a key paper that was used to revise the whole PhyloTree build and propose the RSRS (discussed <a href="http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.es/2012/04/mitochondrial-dna-revision-and.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>). <br /><br />However I could not find them but mentioned in the long list of estimated ages (supp. material) without further references. The sequences are not in GenBank yet.<br /><br />This only seems to suggest that the authors are preparing some further work on the matter, retaining the key data by the moment. It is possible, I guess, that they may reply to your requests for info (some researchers are more accessible than others but worth a try if you have personal stakes on the matter). <br /><br />Rather than Basque-alignment specifically, other H1j lineages may just be aligned with the general pattern of H1 distribution (Atlantic Europe specially, from Scandinavia to Portugal) or it may be indirectly related to the Basque H1j1 lineage via SW France/Aquitaine/Franco-Cantabrian region in several times and manners. After all, the closest thing to a Basque is a Gascon and the Basque genetic pool probably comes mostly from Aquitaine and, more generally, Southern and Western France. This area, sadly, is not well researched (because of French restrictive laws and general lack of interest) but potentially hides a good deal of European roots.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-68535997611764716552012-04-10T18:02:56.156+02:002012-04-10T18:02:56.156+02:00Edited posts:
I don't think the Guatemalan H1j...Edited posts:<br />I don't think the Guatemalan H1j+2626C is actually counted yet (as a third 2626C to confirm the new Mg). Either his sample is not yet in GenBank, or because he has the exact mutations as me (incl. 10455G & 593G). I think the latter disqualifies him, even though its very unlikely we will find a common documented ancestor. There is another 2626C who's origins I don't know in Ian Logan's H1j page (http://bit.ly/Hv02sX).<br /><br />10455G & 593G should be downstream of 2626C because they are absent in the DQ489525 Hinttala 1996 (2626C) sample.Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-51042804889280990272012-04-10T18:00:18.433+02:002012-04-10T18:00:18.433+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-78825926917567760562012-04-10T17:57:49.257+02:002012-04-10T17:57:49.257+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64210412471958592332012-04-10T17:55:00.376+02:002012-04-10T17:55:00.376+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-54987941266258502512012-04-10T17:42:34.653+02:002012-04-10T17:42:34.653+02:00I am EU372630 at the H1J level. We have a second w...I am EU372630 at the H1J level. We have a second with sub 2626C, waiting for a third to attach H1j9 if we are not passe before. <br />I can't find the data for the groups H1j3 through 8, trying to identify their specific regions of origins for them. Can someone point me to the right address<br /><br />Our 2626C line (includes Tom above :) ) is from Cateline Barau (priest in La Rochelle FRA call her Catherine) born circa 1570, living in La Rochelle later. The second 2626C match descends from a Guatemalan woman circa 1870s. We think Cataline's family might have been recruited from Oc-language or Basques country, after a protestant purge in contested La Rochelle.Ancestrologuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327368687013893315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-9003086993260276362012-04-10T08:42:49.524+02:002012-04-10T08:42:49.524+02:00No, neither. The H1j lineages which are mentioned ...No, neither. The H1j lineages which are mentioned are all within H1j1, as per table 1, reproduced above.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-50350672843440262052012-04-09T18:36:36.251+02:002012-04-09T18:36:36.251+02:00In the article is there any mention of a type H1j9...In the article is there any mention of a type H1j9 - or not? Not sure if anything is mentioned about this - or the Sequence Sample EU372630? - Thanks, Tom MoffattTom Moffatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07962542427939615587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-52008781237591759812012-03-20T17:15:09.101+01:002012-03-20T17:15:09.101+01:00I correct: the BIOMIC's head is Dr. Martínez d...I correct: the BIOMIC's head is Dr. Martínez de Pancorbo, not Martínez Cruz. So no, the paper has yet to be published AFAIK. :(Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com