tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post5376845814772049134..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Central European farmers, but also Danish "hunter-gatherers" had domestic pigsMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-73407360924214631162013-08-29T04:29:23.462+02:002013-08-29T04:29:23.462+02:00I would rather think that foragers (in the Danish ...I would rather think that foragers (in the Danish case largely fishers) would initially adopt those Neolithic advances that they deem useful. That may well include some farming but not easily to the point of becoming the central pillar of the economy but rather "easy crops" that need limited care. Herding can also be quite "enslaving" and in this sense pigs offer the potential of leaving them semi-wild and later hunting them or, alternatively, using them in controlled manner to plough the fields. Goats are also quite versatile, while sheep and cows (and even horses) probably require more attention instead and are therefore less desirable. <br /><br />The practice of leaving goats and pigs in feral state was also used by European sailors in the Age of Discovery as a way to secure food when they returned to such islands. They did not use sheep nor cows, which may not have survived. <br /><br />Just my tentative opinion anyhow. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-6287296059451830962013-08-29T02:45:50.666+02:002013-08-29T02:45:50.666+02:00I think this adds to the idea that jumping from hu...I think this adds to the idea that jumping from hunter-gatherer to herder (or partial herder) is the easiest transition.Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-31019115571690430782013-08-28T16:20:14.401+02:002013-08-28T16:20:14.401+02:00"My view on that is that they were simply opp..."My view on that is that they were simply opportunistic".<br /><br />Maybe but it's in any case farming (or more exactly "herding"). Notice that small scale farming attached to a more "primitive" economy would not leave tracks easy to discern, and that's why it's often difficult to be sure of when exactly farming begins in areas that are not outright colonized with the full "Neolithic package". I think that the problem applies in general terms to all Atlantic Europe and other areas, where the Neolithic genesis is complex and sometimes quite subtle. <br /><br />"Of course, there are analogies to NE European cultures, somewhat later".<br /><br />I bet you're thinking of Pitted Ware. This would be a different case because they clearly derive from a well developed Neolithic culture (Dniepr-Don). Just that their northern offshoots were to a great extent returned to foraging because of their "frontier" conditions. Foraging with pottery and pigs at the very least, so they were also Neolithic. <br /><br />It's a bit like European fur trappers in the "Wild West": they were usually not farmers as such but their wider cultural context was without doubt. <br /><br />Whatever the case, I think that this really lean the scales in favor of considering Ertebølle a Neolithic culture, even if "transitional" or whatever.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-76308026161317385282013-08-28T13:30:19.980+02:002013-08-28T13:30:19.980+02:00"The most striking result is surely not the d..."The most striking result is surely not the demonstration of pigs being in Central Europe a few centuries than previously confirmed but that Ertebølle hunter-gatherers of Denmark had them as well, quite radically casting doubt on their status as hunter-gatherers and placing them fully in the Neolithic context, even still rather marginal and peripheral. "<br /><br />My view on that is that they were simply opportunistic. That is, they recognized that pig-raising was one of the easiest ways to make large gains from adapted neolithic practices - without giving up much of their own practices. Of course, there are analogies to NE European cultures, somewhat later.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.com