tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post7806200099680087311..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Ethiopian haploid geneticsMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-3212106928709852422018-10-03T21:56:25.465+02:002018-10-03T21:56:25.465+02:00Who are you calling "eurocentrist" and w...Who are you calling "eurocentrist" and why?<br /><br />Also what is the problem with people being interested in one of the largest haplogroups and most widely distributed of Humankind, one that incidentally has been in Europe since Neolithic times? <br /><br />And where do you see the "obsession"? <br /><br />Should I have thrown your comment to the trash bing as pointless trolling? Maybe. I'll give you the chance to explain or apologize first, as I'm not familiar with you yet. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-17688164732288355412018-10-03T18:12:38.640+02:002018-10-03T18:12:38.640+02:00Wow eurocentrist are obsessed with Haplogroup E!!!...Wow eurocentrist are obsessed with Haplogroup E!!!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691101899603786416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-40038834111499969312012-11-29T04:35:03.648+01:002012-11-29T04:35:03.648+01:00"This E1b1c was last listed by ISOGG in 2010 ..."This E1b1c was last listed by ISOGG in 2010 with the marker M329. Now it is also an E1b1a variant, specifically E1b1a2". <br /><br />Yes, the author seems to be using an old nomenclature, which makes it difficult to follow all the ins and outs. But the study is interesting. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-55107822907676180752012-11-28T13:42:23.373+01:002012-11-28T13:42:23.373+01:00Partly true. But the E1b1c dominant among the Maal...Partly true. But the E1b1c dominant among the Maale is also very curious. That lineage is also strictly African and found only in small amounts in other Afroasiatic populations. <br /><br />This E1b1c was last listed by ISOGG in 2010 with the marker M329. Now it is also an E1b1a variant, specifically E1b1a2. <br /><br />So I'd say that both the Anuak and the Maale (and by extension the Nilo-Saharan and the Omotic wider families probably) are interesting in the way you mean, complementary to each other. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-82981026158516375632012-11-28T12:15:14.038+01:002012-11-28T12:15:14.038+01:00To me, especially in the context of the origin and...To me, especially in the context of the origin and evolution of y-DNA E, the AN (Anuak/#6) are the most interesting ones. They are completely different regarding their E make-up: the only ones with significant E2 and huge E1b1a7, and also the only B-carriers and have almost no Eurasian mt-DNA. Perhaps studies like this one can eventually illuminate the origin and timing of the different E-subgroups.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-90836275539475168832012-11-28T03:25:57.259+01:002012-11-28T03:25:57.259+01:00While I though in some aspects in a way similar to...While I though in some aspects in a way similar to what (I think that) you say initially, it all changed when I realized the parallel with North Africa. So now I think mostly in the following draft:<br /><br />1. Pre-OoA stage (L3(xM,N), L2, L4, L5, L0...)<br />2. Early UP backmigrant wave from West Asia: M1, U6, X1 and maybe others like U1... In the Y-DNA side I'd speculate with R1b-V88, J* and J1 subclades, T (but with lots of caution on the male side, which is much harder to gauge). This wave might well have triggered the LSA in general.<br />3. Only for NW Africa (maybe with extension up to Egypt but not farther), Oranian wave with important genetic input from SW Europe: mtDNA H1, H3, H4, H7 and V apparently. Y-DNA R1b-M269 and I (the first exists in NW Africa at levels of c. 10%, the latter is rare but was common among Guanches according to ancient DNA). Possible smaller counter-flow of mtDNA U6 and Y-DNA E1b-M81 to Iberia then. <br />4. Late UP/Epipaleolithic Afroasiatic expansion (from somewhere in the Nile basin), dominated by Y-DNA E1b-M78 but also J1 (which either was imported then from Asia or was already in Africa since the early UP); diverse in the mtDNA side (for instance U6a shows a signal of backflow Westward according to Maca-Meyer 2006). Later Neolithic hypothetical flows from West Asia (??) may confuse this a bit, bringing stuff like mtDNA K, W, etc.<br />5. A final, rather thin, Semitic layer(s) with some J1 and notably the J2 signal. Also some West Asian specific mtDNA like R0a and some extra M1.<br /><br />"bride exchange"<br /><br />If you read the thesis it has an extensive section on inheritance of identity and while the mother side was less strong (excepting precisely some Omotic peoples like the Dizi) in general previous generations were almost always attached to their ethnicities by both sides. However that is quite less common nowadays (localized "globalization", you know - but still larger groups keep their ethnic homogeneity much better). <br /><br />"As expected, the Semitic Amhara have elevated levels of J1 and J2 relative to the other populations, but the amount of elevation relative to the two Cushitic populations (the Afar and Oromo) is surprisingly modest".<br /><br />That's why I insist in considering J1 a generic Afroasiatic lineage also in Africa and also since immemorial times (Late UP), together with E1b-M78. Prior to Neolithic these populations expanded, something that is obvious in the case of Capsian culture (NW Africa) but that may include even founder effects in SE Europe (Greece with extension to Albania and such), later carried around by the Neolithic flows, surely not anymore Afroasiatic in language (but uncertain). <br /><br />"Y-DNA E1/mtDNA L3* seems like"... <br /><br />Look at the update because the homogeneous appearance of the E1* bloc is very misleading. Surely that is also the case with L3*, L2, etc. Sadly the study lacks sufficient depth but don't let yourself be misled by such hyper-wide catch-all categories. Caution there!<br /><br />There is much more in that paper and certainly in the still semi-explored Horner genetic landscape than meets the eye in a quick look. It is very interesting for a full read and still there are many blanks asking to be completed. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-54791393259880950622012-11-28T00:02:14.608+01:002012-11-28T00:02:14.608+01:00The most common interpretation of the distribution...The most common interpretation of the distribution of haplogroups M and U in Africa is that M1 and U6, which are specific to Africa and common across North Africa and East Africa in linguistically Afro-Asiatic populations, represent back migrations to Africa, in Upper Paleolithic era that are not associated with any of the more recent Neolithic era migrations to Africa from Eurasia such as probably Bronze Age migration associated with the Ethio-Semitic language family. This expansion seems to have had a male counterpart of some manner of Y-DNA haplogroup E, the only Y-DNA haplogroup present at significant levels in all populations with M1 and/or U6 in significant amounts.<br /><br />All of the populations except the Nilotic Anuak are Afro-Asiatic linguistically, so it is unsurprising that the Anuak lack M1 and U. In terms of deep linguistic history it is widely assumed that in Ethiopia, Nilotic language family speakers migrated to the region at a time long after the Afro-Asiatic languages were established there. The E1b1a7 Y-DNA haplogroup found in the Anuak is a characteristic marker of Nilotic affiliation. The Nilotic population is also the only one in the sample with Y-DNA haplogroups B or E2 and the only one to completely lack Y-DNA haplogroup T.<br /><br />In terms of matching Y-DNA and mtDNA proportions across the five populations, the mostly likely pairing seems to be Y-DNA A3b2b and mtDNA L2. This pairing might be the profile of one African population that admixed with other populations in the region at some point. The admixture seems to have largely bypassed the Omotic peoples, whose low but non-trivial levels of L2 could easily have a source of bride exchange with neighboring Nilotic and Cushitic populations. Perhaps the A3b2b/L2 people were involved in Cushitic ethnogenesis, either as a substrate or superstrate population in that process.<br /><br />As expected, the Semitic Amhara have elevated levels of J1 and J2 relative to the other populations, but the amount of elevation relative to the two Cushitic populations (the Afar and Oromo) is surprisingly modest, for what is commonly seen as a male dominated wave of migration that produced a language shift in Ethio-Semities who previously spoke Cushitic languages.<br /><br />Y-DNA E1/mtDNA L3* seems like the most likely profile for a founding/background population in Ethiopia, with other haplogroups found in Cushitic, Semitic or Nilotic speaking populations (including J1 and J2 but perhaps not J*) but much less common in Omotic language populations seen as intrusive subsequent waves.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.com