tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post7739599626452961526..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Lactase persistence genetics in AfricaMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-16934748910296362622015-06-02T13:39:11.138+02:002015-06-02T13:39:11.138+02:00You wrote: "Notably this allele has reached S...You wrote: "Notably this allele has reached Southern Africa but it seems more directly related to the Khoe-Khoe pastoralist history and maybe other populations of possible East African origins (Himba, Herero) than to anything Bantu. "<br /><br />Actually, the OvaHimba & OvaHerero are the same people. They speak the same langauge (OtjiHerero) although he OvaHimba speak a slightly (but mutually intelligible) dialect.Richard Høyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09365747744136261072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-18405117090200915212014-03-26T05:38:51.774+01:002014-03-26T05:38:51.774+01:00In my opinion it is not impossible at all that all...In my opinion it is not impossible at all that all the three related alleles of the top of the chart originated in Africa (Sudan for example). <br /><br />The West Asian origin can't be discarded at this stage but the recent research in European early Neolithic shows an African element in it (even if mediated via West Asia): E1b-V13 was there (Catalan Cardium Pottery) and must have arrived to Thessaly (most common in Greece/Albania, Thessaly is at the origin of most of the European Neolithic) via some sort of founder effect probably with partial origin in Palestine (rather than Anatolia only). Not only E1b suggest a Palestinian connection but maybe also G, which is not rarer in the Southern Levant than in Turkey (although less studied). Critically the early European farmers of Lazaridis show that "Palestinian" deviation in autosomal DNA, which this researcher explains as "Basal Eurasian" (as opposed to mainstream Eurasians) but that I strongly suspect African influenced instead (as modern Palestinians and Negev Bedouins are). <br /><br />This can be explained because the Afroasiatic core expansion was Mesolithic and clearly affected Palestine, at the very least the more semi-desertic fringes, which in due time generated the Semitic phenomenon. So there was some African influence in the Levantine Neolithic and for some odd reason it affected Thessaly strongly and, via Thessaly, much of Europe. <br /><br />As this study ponders that the LP phenotype (the enzyme manifested by all alleles) could have an original role in fencing off malaria and also it has another known role in preventing diabetes mellitus type II, I think it would make good sense if all the triple branch of alleles originated in Sudan in Mesolithic times, helping against malaria and also against the risk of diabetes that greater consumption of cereal (carbohydrates in general) tends to cause. As far as I know there is indeed a "Nubian Mesolithic" rich in wild cereal consumption, even if there is no evidence that it evolved locally into Neolithic before West Asian back-influences arrived. <br /><br />So I would keep very open the possibility that the three alleles have a common origin in Africa for all these reasons. <br /><br />IF some of them actually evolved elsewhere, the "Islamic" explanation sounds very far fetched and inconsistent with the actual data (all those questions that you pose and some others that I do on my own). If anything it'd be some sort of Neolithic flow. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-71601628423632012602014-03-26T04:20:54.913+01:002014-03-26T04:20:54.913+01:00Ok I think I understand, as you say they are using...Ok I think I understand, as you say they are using references + their own data. The red points in the contour map are samples from previous studies, while the network diagrams are only samples from this current study, thus, that is why they don't show many haplotypes from the peninsula in the network as only the Yemeni (jews), Lebanese and Palestinians were sampled from the near east, of which they had 15.2%, 0% and 4.5% of G-13915 respectively.<br />I must say this is a very interesting allele, they are implying that it may be one of the signatures of the islamic expansion. It has a low presence in Northern Ethiopia with the Beta Israel, with an increasing presence as you go to southern Ethiopia, with the Burji and the Konso, and reaches its maximum in Northern Kenya with the Gabra (20%), but also high presence with the Watta, Gareh and Orma. Then as you go further North from Northern Ethiopia it picks up frequency again with the Beja (19%). It is almost as if there is a discontinuity in Northern and central Ethiopia of this allele. <br />But the question is, if it is associated with the islamic expansion why can't you see it in North Africa? and why would it be present in the konso, albeit moderately @ 8%? And why present in the Yemeni Jews but totally absent in the Lebanese? The Lebanese were certainly affected by the expansion....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06247500186976801582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-25285463358634559042014-03-25T19:45:03.797+01:002014-03-25T19:45:03.797+01:00I just sent you a copy of the paper, so maybe you ...I just sent you a copy of the paper, so maybe you can dig in more detail in some of these issues (or whatever others). Discerning some of these details you mention may require to take a look at the referenced bibliography, because it seems clear that in some cases they are talking of their own (mostly African but slanted to the East) sample (the haplotype network is surely one such case) and in others of the expanded sample and the conclusions previously reached by other researchers (frequency maps, conclusions on G-13915).<br /><br />I look forward to whatever you can mine from it.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-81226065749877227812014-03-25T15:35:12.376+01:002014-03-25T15:35:12.376+01:00This is interesting, I have not read the paper mys...This is interesting, I have not read the paper myself, but after seeing the network diagrams you posted for G-13915, I too was wondering why they would propose an Arabian origin for it when it is clearly centered in East Africa from the Network diagram, however, if you look at the frequency map you show, the allele is more frequent in the peninsula, so I think one of the images must be wrong, either the frequency or the network one?? Thanks for the info anyhow....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06247500186976801582noreply@blogger.com