tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post3247370914901722806..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: Caribbean autosomal ancestryMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-71438476072922409812021-05-20T00:52:04.144+02:002021-05-20T00:52:04.144+02:00I read Thierno's study. It is good. I found th...I read Thierno's study. It is good. I found that, despite my maternal grandma, my maternal great uncle and maternal cousin having up to 20% or more of African ancestry (classified as West African in many genetic runs), they actually showed up as North African-Moor. What really motivated me was when all three my maternal family genomes clustered very close to gun007 on the mytrueancestry.com PCA plots. That is what led me to finally take the Coding Region test this year and run it by Rosa Fregel. Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-44356001142294919482021-05-19T16:11:43.600+02:002021-05-19T16:11:43.600+02:00These are interesting but don't deal with any ...These are interesting but don't deal with any relation of Guanches or otherwise Berbers and the Caribbean colonization, a matter that remains unresearched except for Thierno's amateur study. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-53293689309617456272021-05-19T07:13:10.999+02:002021-05-19T07:13:10.999+02:00Had it not been for the Victorian obsession regard...Had it not been for the Victorian obsession regarding phrenology and those ancestral skulls they tucked away in Edinburgh, I never would've been able to reconnect with my Berber ancestors!: <br /><br />https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982217312575Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-24966352920613208072021-05-19T06:34:07.603+02:002021-05-19T06:34:07.603+02:00Yes. And I confirmed via the Canarian geneticist R...Yes. And I confirmed via the Canarian geneticist Rosa Fregel that helped to publish this white paper last year that I am indeed L3b1a12. She confirmed this to me just last month! After 13 years of research and hundreds of dollars of genetic testing, I can finally put this research to rest: <br /><br />https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209125Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-79899538720336730412018-10-12T16:33:15.353+02:002018-10-12T16:33:15.353+02:00Five years later... Charles' hypothesis of Gua...Five years later... Charles' hypothesis of Guanche (Berber) ancestry is confirmed: https://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-major-guanche-genetic-influence-in.html<br /><br />It was as easy as testing it, well, almost but in essence it was. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-7338533698020194912014-02-16T23:37:02.527+01:002014-02-16T23:37:02.527+01:00New update with another, quite detailed, historica...New update with another, quite detailed, historical review of Canarian flows to the Spanish Caribbean possessions (in Spanish language). As an example, in the levy of 1824 alone, more than 66,000 young men were sent there as recruits. Thanks to Charles again. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-42795592136592265752014-02-10T10:33:24.122+01:002014-02-10T10:33:24.122+01:00Note: Charles uploaded an admixture graph for his ...Note: Charles uploaded an <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-gtF2Hah8JIVEJHUG1SbGF0R2s/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow">admixture graph for his grandmother</a>, which clearly shows that she has mostly North African ancestry, plus some Native Mesoamerican, and no obvious European tendency whatsoever. So at least in a point case the Berber ancestry is formally demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-8125564660460679302014-01-06T21:36:53.611+01:002014-01-06T21:36:53.611+01:00I have to agree with you Maju. I think we need mor...I have to agree with you Maju. I think we need more studies like this. When people talk about the SSA component, sometimes the discussions become passionate and visceral. We need more rational parameters such as the one presented by sinologist in order to avoid discussions degenerating into mutual recriminations of racism or some other such ad hominem. Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-18256386958290731222014-01-05T03:08:16.811+01:002014-01-05T03:08:16.811+01:00It looks an interesting study, thanks. It seems in...It looks an interesting study, thanks. It seems interesting that the group with <40% African ancestry (which in essence includes the samples with ~10% African ancestry) seems most tightly linked to North Africa, in contrast with the rest, whose origins are tropical. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-28569049703897222292014-01-04T22:08:17.708+01:002014-01-04T22:08:17.708+01:00This wiki talks in detail about the Isleño contrib...This wiki talks in detail about the Isleño contribution to the Spanish Empire. I would say it is safe to say that the Canarians were in many ways the Irish of the Spanish Empire. They filled the populational gaps in the Spanish Empire. And they contributed permanently their culture, dialect and I would say also their North African - Iberian genomic mix: <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%C3%B1oCharleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-11791994414390198432014-01-04T20:57:40.323+01:002014-01-04T20:57:40.323+01:00I would like to present a great work I contributed...I would like to present a great work I contributed my genetic information to. I think her results are important in regards to the ongoing discussion of the Sub Saharan component in the Americas. She makes a rational cutoff at around 40% (She presents in her results section.) in regards to those of clear slave descent vs those that have other heritages such as Moorish, Guanche or Middle Easterner. I think adds some rationality to this often passionate discussion! And it shows the complexity of the admixture of New World genomes! <br /><br />http://sinologist500.wordpress.com/abstract-3/Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-42446551008688016962013-12-14T19:12:16.999+01:002013-12-14T19:12:16.999+01:00Excellent information. Thanks for your input Maju!...Excellent information. Thanks for your input Maju! :-) It clarifies some key points for me regarding Spain. Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-35687176119211206792013-12-14T14:33:15.411+01:002013-12-14T14:33:15.411+01:00Eventually everything can be political. I'm no...Eventually everything can be political. I'm not the kind who pretends the opposite. My conditions for commenting here are political: racism, sexism and homophobia (which are political) are simply not allowed on human rights grounds (which are political). In the past my only blog Leherensuge was multifaceted and, even if I have split it in two, to try to keep things somewhat separated, I'm not going to disdain nor censor if some elements have political ramifications, as long as general respect and human rights are not stepped on. <br /><br />In this case there are some political aspects that are worth to mention. After all both Canary Islands and America suffered a colonial genocide and that genocide and colonialism have political effects today. <br /><br />Spain as Kingdom was legally created only with the Bourbons in the early 18th century, after losing all possessions elsewhere in Europe. Previously Castile (with its colonies) was a distinct kingdom from those of the Crown of Aragon, as well as other Crown possessions in Italy and Central-West Europe (Low Countries, Franche-Comté, even Portugal and its own distinct colonial empire for some time). Non-castilians had no right to take part in the castilian colonial enterprise (the same that non-portuguese had no right to take part in the portuguese colonial empire), with the rare royal-sanctioned exception. Basques were technically Castilians and so were Canarians but for example Catalans or Belgians were not. <br /><br />So when we talk of Spanish America and so on, in fact we are talking of Castilian America, etc. But as the core ethnicity of Spain is Castilian these things get confused. It's much like saying England instead of Great Britain but vice versa. In Spanish history it tends to say "Spain" (like "Great Britain") when this concept was not yet one of a polity but a mere geographical one (i.e. Iberian Peninsula) and they should use Castile or "Spanish Crown" instead, depending on what exactly they are talking about. <br /><br />The usage "Spanish Crown" actually became most common under Philip II, who was also King of Portugal (part of "Spain" in the original sense of Iberia) and had lost the German Imperial crown to his half-brother. After the loss of Portugal the term persisted but the real legal formation of Spain as unified polity only came after the Spanish War of Succession and the arrival of the Bourbons. There is not a precise year because the Decretos de Nueva Planta that suppressed the self-rule of the Aragonese realms were issued between 1707 and 1716 but that's the decade when it happened in any case. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Planta_decrees<br /><br />"the idea of Spain is still very much an invention of the medieval and renaissance minds"<br /><br />It is a geographical reality (Iberian Peninsula) and has got some variable level of "unity" since the Barcas. Like so many others, its political manifestation as state was always a matter of historical accidents or often provoked incidents: the Trastamaras conspired even against their own children for it, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_of_Viana - although it's not complete and does not include Juan's written confession of parricide plotting against all his children from his first marriage in favor of the line that would bring the union of Castile and Aragon, which is documented. But in any case I feel that they were not so much worried about forming "Spain" but about generally expanding their dynastic power to as much of Europe as possible; the same that they plotted for the union with Castile, they also plotted for the conquest of Italy and the incorporation of "German" realms of all sorts. In this sense Spain is rather an accident of the story of a great political imperialist dynastic ambition. One that Machiavelli probably had in mind all the time when writing The Prince but did not dare to emphasize because it could have backfired (instead he used the more modest example of Cesare Borgia).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-86179083900902891942013-12-14T01:41:24.875+01:002013-12-14T01:41:24.875+01:00That's fascinating Maju. I see we can't es...That's fascinating Maju. I see we can't escape talking about politics when we talk about genealogy and genetics. :-)<br /><br />I think the problem with Spain (if I may dare to opine, since my family has not been subjects to the Spanish Crown since 1898), is that its foundations were laid as a loose confederation of regional states presided by Isabel la Católica and his Husband. I know there have been reforms here and there, such as the Bourbon reforms of the 18th century and introduction of a constitutional monarchy in the late 70's, but the idea of Spain is still very much an invention of the medieval and renaissance minds of an elite that wished for a Hispania that mainly existed in the imaginations of dreamers. As Calderón de la Barca said: La vida es un sueño y sueños sueños son....Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-16845835524990517522013-12-14T00:36:19.071+01:002013-12-14T00:36:19.071+01:00Nothing to forgive, man: just trying to expand the...Nothing to forgive, man: just trying to expand the field of vision a bit, always according to what I'm able to observe. <br /><br />"I agree that this needs to be looked into further"...<br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />"And from what I have read, there are still tensions and separatist leanings to this very day!"<br /><br />Well, modern Canarians seem pretty much "iberized": they are not any more only or mostly Guanche descendants, although they probably keep a variable Guanche ancestry, strongest in La Gomera (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canarian_people#Population_genetics). For that and other reasons (they may fear more Morocco than Spain) they haven't been able to organize a strong nationalist movement, although the islands' politics are dominated by the Spanish-nationalist parties (PP and PSOE) a moderate-conservative regionalist party (Coalición Canaria). There used to be some very militant Canarian nationalist movement in the past (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPAIAC), with some support from Algeria and what not, but a state terrorist attack against their leader Cubillo essentially ended it. <br /><br />I'm not sure how strong is Canarian nationalism (i.e. beyond regionalism) today although I have the impression that both left and nationalist feelings are growing (but not just in Canarias but in most of the quite poorly structured state of Spain, which now also goes through one of its worst historical crisis in the economic aspect with unemployment and poverty becoming simply unbearable). Canarias, as well as other southern "colonial" areas of the state (Andalusia, etc.) bear the bulk of the damage, so no wonder that people is restless everywhere and look in many "regions" to break away with such a failed state that cannot guarantee a modicum of social stability anymore. <br /><br />Curiously Canarias has a common and not "national" statute of autonomy, although being insular it also has some peculiarities. Instead Andalusia is accepted as "historical nationality" (even if nationalism is not really stronger than in Canarias). <br /><br />Whatever the case the tension is not fully solved and is quite clear that Canarias is not at all a region favored in the Spanish socio-political structure. When I made a historical mini-study on the origin of Spanish Presidents (of the government, i.e. PM, or of the republic, when there was one) I found that Canarians were the second ethnic group more marginalized (from political power), right after Catalans, who only had three presidents and all them in the First Republic. See: http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogspot.com/2012/10/ethnically-speaking-who-rules-spain.htmlMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-66000029902691640602013-12-13T18:31:22.918+01:002013-12-13T18:31:22.918+01:00I would agree with you Maju that the Canarians may...I would agree with you Maju that the Canarians may have indeed a far empire wide effect on the whole of the Americas. Please forgive me for being such a regionalist! I am just not as fluent about the history of Central and South America to comment on them. I do know the Canarians were sent to fill gaps and middle to lower level governmental posts as well as fill the ranks of the Army with subjects faithful to the crown. But again, I have not delved into that subject in depth. I agree that this needs to be looked into further and I agree that the study is way too constricted to components such as tropical Africa to be of too much use. I agree that the North African element is very important. The "via de escape" policy the Spanish Empire served two purposes: 1. To fill the gaps administrative, logistical, military and trade related regional gaps to insure the good functioning of the empire with subjects faithful to the Spanish Crown. 2. To diffuse tensions in the Canaries due to the disparity between the haves and have nots in the Canaries itself. From the beginning there were social tensions in the Canaries. And from what I have read, there are still tensions and separatist leanings to this very day! Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-35426399394947074092013-12-13T10:49:43.535+01:002013-12-13T10:49:43.535+01:00Look at the graphs above again, Charles, especiall...Look at the graphs above again, Charles, especially <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KSj15TD9Ucc/UbN0cxegsqI/AAAAAAAAB8o/b3yoKSWeyVQ/s1600/Caribbean-K7.png" rel="nofollow">this one</a>. All Caribbean countries and not just Cuba and Puerto Rico share similar high levels of the "black" component, which I most likely to represents Guanche ancestry (after a technical reduction of the 20% of the size of the red segment of each individual, I guess).<br /><br />It's not just a matter of Puerto Rico and Cuba but of all the Caribbean, including large countries like Mexico or Colombia. Cuba looks in fact the less Guanche of all, surely because a lot of people also migrated from the Iberian mainland and other parts of Europe, mostly in the 19th Century. It still looks very much Berber but not as much as Colombia or Mexico, for example, at least in the share of the "white" ancestry (red and black colors in the graph). <br /><br />So I would de-emphasize the Cuba/PR uniqueness of this Guanche ancestry. It seems to be much more widespread than just those islands and affect the whole Caribbean/GoM basin in almost identical ways in what regards to the colonial component. For me it's fascinating that those small Canary Islands were able to cause such a massive founder effect (but you did explain how that could be: only Guanches were motivated enough, in most cases, to attempt the colonial adventure in the first centuries of the Castilian Empire). <br /><br />Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-39213035172577077732013-12-13T02:19:28.565+01:002013-12-13T02:19:28.565+01:00Here's a well made documentary (partially avai...Here's a well made documentary (partially available online) in Spanish explaining the importance of the Canarian component in places like Puerto Rico (in three parts). There was clearly a wholesale insertion of entire aspects of the Canarian culture into colonized spaces such as Puerto Rico: <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfVctAIlpxw&list=FLSoYfkAMqhoY3YCgVwnqIKg&index=18Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-89892029998391415142013-12-13T01:40:38.362+01:002013-12-13T01:40:38.362+01:00Yes. I agree. I feel that the Cubans had a much mo...Yes. I agree. I feel that the Cubans had a much more active economy, and therefore, a far greater influx of slaves into that Island. But the "white" (primarily Canarian) components of that Island for the most part did not mix with the black population. So you see more of a dichotomy in Cuba then you would have, for example, in the Dominican Republic. My grandmother has many Cuban Canarian cousins on 23andme.com. Her primary country on her places of ancestry component in 23andme.com is actually Cuba! This is why the poetess Lola Rodríguez de Tió wrote the following poem about Cuba and Puerto Rico in which she declared Cuba and Puerto Rico as two wings to a bird. That is because the primary component that unites Cuba and Puerto Rico is the Canarian component:<br /><br />"MI LIBRO DE CUBA" de Lola Rodriguez de Tió <br /><br />¡Vuestros dioses tutelares <br />Han de ser también los míos! <br />Vuestras palmas, vuestros ríos <br />repetirán mis cantares... <br />Culto rindo a estos hogares <br />Donde ni estorba ni aterra <br />El duro brazo que cierra <br />Del hombre los horizontes... <br />¡Yo cantaré en estos montes <br />Como cantaba en mi tierra! <br /><br />Cuba y Puerto Rico son <br />De un pájaro las dos alas, <br />Reciben flores y balas <br />Sobre el mismo corazón... <br />¡Qué mucho si en la ilusión <br />Qué mil tintes arrebola, <br />Sueña la musa de Lola <br />Con ferviente fantasía, <br />¡De esta tierra y la mía, <br />Hacer una patria sola! <br /><br />Le basta al ave una rama <br />Para formar blando lecho: <br />Bajo su rústico techo <br />¡Es dichosa porque ama! <br />Todo el que en amor se inflama <br />Calma en breve su hondo anhelo: <br />Y yo plegando mi vuelo, <br />Como el ave en la enramada, <br />Canto feliz, Cuba amada, <br />¡Tu mar, tu campo y tu cielo! Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-80248928590279532272013-12-12T23:49:45.057+01:002013-12-12T23:49:45.057+01:00I just let you an extensive comment in Spanish at ...I just let you an extensive comment in Spanish at your blog. I must say that your personal epic of ancestry finding is most interesting and, incidentally, revealing for a large sector of the World's population. Because if the Canarian-Guanche origin of most of the "black" component is confirmed, as I believe it will be, it should be a revelation for the whole region. The "black" component is not just overwhelmingly dominant in the Caribbean islands (with some partial exception in Cuba) but also in Mexico, Colombia and Honduras and even the small "european" admixture in the Mayas should be of that same origin. So the Guanche ancestry may be common to all the Caribbean basin (Spanish speaking countries at least, although it's also apparent in the few Haitians with some "european" ancestry). <br /><br />On the other hand, Peru and nearby areas, may have received more genuinely Castilian immigration, judging from the fact that small admixture in Quechuas appears mostly "red". Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-8190721262496165322013-12-12T08:17:13.632+01:002013-12-12T08:17:13.632+01:00I include here an article in Spanish I recently pu...I include here an article in Spanish I recently published thanks to a professor in history from Gran Canaria in the Canary Islands. In the article, I explain my genetic and genealogical research into my Canarian Guanche heritage and the heritage of many like me that arrived to fill the empty spaces the Spanish Empire had in places like the Caribbean. My grandmother has one of the highest percentages of North African DNA out of 1300 plus genetic cousins she has on 23andme.com. That gives me confidence my ancestry was indeed Guanche. The Native American and Tropical African she does have is the same most people in Puerto Rico have. That is admixture. The genealogical records suggest that my great great grandmother was classified as a mestiza in her death certificate. (But no where were they declared mulata. And they were too poor to bribe the officials to whiten them in the census!) This is because the Guanche were confused constantly as Native American-Iberian mestizos in the American Colonies. You will see by the photos in my article that my maternal family's phenotype is Afro-Asiatic and not Tropical African. We have blondes in our family as well as other recessive features characteristic of Caucasoid people. This blog I submitted to only takes serious genealogical studies and has received over a 110 thousand hits according to the manager. I am practically the only article of the Canarian diaspora in that genealogical blog. <br /><br />I wanted to add also that, one of the reasons why the Tropical African component is limited in Puerto Rico to the North Eastern, Eastern and metro areas of San Juan and Ponce is because Puerto Rico suffered a Great Recession that lasted about two centuries. After the gold dried up Puerto Rico, Spain focused on Peru and Mexico as part of the New Spain. Puerto Rico thus became a malaria infested and storm infested presidio. No one wanted to go there! Only those escaping the Inquisition (specially after the seat of the Inquisition was moved from the Dominican Republic to Peru in the late 1500's) such as the crypto Jews and the hardy Canarian Guanche were the few "white" components that made it to the Island. Of course, there were always the elite that settled in the western part of the Island. About two thirds of the mitochondria found in Puerto Rico were those of Native American women. Because the Spanish killed off most of the men (up to 90%) and kept the women for breeding. The same thing happened in the Canaries! Everything the Spanish needed to know about colonization of natives they perfected in the Canaries! The rest of the mitochondria can be divided between the African and the European component. But it is important to note that the transatlantic slave trade, unlike the transaharan slave trade, favored men over women two to one. So, out of the African mitochondria present in Puerto Rico, it could be argued that about half of that is actually neolithic Iberian and Guanche Berber. The fact is that Puerto Rico was very economically unattractive in the 16 and 1700's. So much so, that Spain came up with a forced relocation policy called the Tributo de Sangre. The purpose of this was to fill up the empty spaces in these undesirable parts of the Spanish empire to make sure it was populated enough to stave off invaders such as the British and Dutch as well as to try to receive tribute from these forgotten parts of the empire. The Tributo was somewhat successful. Many families did emigrate to places like Puerto Rico from the Canaries. And unlike the Peninsulares (Spaniards from the Mainland), the Isleños (Canarians) tended to stay in these places. A virtual transfer of culture occurred where the Canarian culture and linguistic vernacular was transported wholesale to places like Puerto Rico. It is safe to say that at least two thirds of the white peasant stock on the Island are of Canarian origin. <br /><br />http://geneacanaria.blogspot.com.es/2013/12/desde-la-lejania-una-aventura-del.htmlCharleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656563742645201926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-44813257518788333242013-11-15T22:28:16.571+01:002013-11-15T22:28:16.571+01:00Update: study formally published at PLoS ONE: http...Update: study formally published at PLoS ONE: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003925Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-51428713200432858482013-11-04T00:27:18.522+01:002013-11-04T00:27:18.522+01:00Entry updated: it seems extremely plausible that A...Entry updated: it seems extremely plausible that Aboriginal (or slightly mixed) Canarians (Guanches) were the bulk of Castilian settlers to the Caribbean (and other economically less important areas of the Castilian Empire like Argentina, which were nevertheless very strategical). There is even evidence of forced migration (Tributo de Sangre). <br /><br />Formal test of North African ancestry still awaits but it seems quite likely to be the case on light of the available data. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-751842192200875752013-06-10T05:15:42.794+02:002013-06-10T05:15:42.794+02:00I found this kind of thing, but it's probably ...I found this kind of thing, but it's probably not representative and this kind of trickle effect probably can't have had much of an observable impact on the population:<br /><br />"Emigration to Hayti.—The brig America, Kingsley, sailed 20th of July from St. John’s River, East Florida, having on board nearly 100 free colored and some white passengers of that neighborhood for Hayti. They were mostly of the useful and laborious classes of this community, such as agriculture, assorted with blacksmiths and carpenters, together with some first rate ship builders and other mechanics, intending to settle near Port au Plate, under the patronage of Mr. Kingsley, a Florida planter, who wishes to transfer their industry in his own fertile lands in Hayti."<br /><br />Boston Recorder, 9 August 1839<br /><br />Transcribed by Mark Fleszar, Georgia State University, 2007.<br /><br />http://www.nps.gov/timu/historyculture/timu_fho_zk_emigration_hayti_bostonrecorder.htm<br /><br /><br />Raimo Kangasniemihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07317328563337885584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-88423864975519808082013-06-10T00:33:28.203+02:002013-06-10T00:33:28.203+02:00Well, just make a search for "molecular clock...Well, just make a search for "molecular clock" at this blog and you should find some extra information on the matter. Suffice to say that I'm very critical with mainstream (and much more with commercial) approaches to this issue of autonomous genetic dating, which I understand is very much in its baby stage as of now, and also suffers from scholastic bias, and cannot offer realistic estimates yet, just a bunch of pseudoscience. My opinion anyhow, of course. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com