tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post2522963434223015415..comments2024-03-09T15:46:44.638+01:00Comments on For what they were... we are: More Austronesian genetics: Dayaks are mostly pre-Austronesian (as most other Austronesians)Majuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-76133700619474028912018-09-25T12:54:08.194+02:002018-09-25T12:54:08.194+02:00Visited from Nagaland and felt compeletely at home...Visited from Nagaland and felt compeletely at home with the KanayatnSangoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16727122469496587305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-21529043760793703862018-09-23T16:42:25.506+02:002018-09-23T16:42:25.506+02:00The large Dayak Ot Danum have clear oral history o...The large Dayak Ot Danum have clear oral history of migrating from Southern Yunnanmarcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03470509984089192445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-90449812303970951152018-06-20T17:26:38.749+02:002018-06-20T17:26:38.749+02:00ok this is a stupid stupid stupid analysis, first ...ok this is a stupid stupid stupid analysis, first of all 19 tribes in Taiwan, the aborginals came from 2 different origins, did this guy even know? I'm hoklo descent and part malayo-polynesian, I know polynesian in pacific are descendent of Amis tribe, but not neccesary from Atayal tribe, because in 5000BCE, these two tribes both living in Taiwan today came from two seperate villeges in east and south coast of today's CHINA mainland! they had the ability to seafar great distance since 4000BCE, they spread out and colonised both east coast Today's china and Taiwan in as early as 4000BCE, by 3000BCE they've fanned out to the Northern Phillipines, and by 2000BCE, they've fanned out to all over southeast Asia, todays' kalinga, IFUGAO tribes in northern phillipines and IBAN people in indonesia share the same culture as the taiwan aborginals, doesn't mean they came from the same tribe! Also vietnamese' ancestors were the YUE people in ancient China in 4000BCE-1000BCE, they were neighbour of MIN people, polynesian's ancestral land in 4000BCE-1000BCE! but different ethnicity! Today's Cantonese chinese are the descendents of the YUE people while HOKKIEN/HOKLO people are the descendent of the MIN! So if the IBAN are Vietnamese origin is no surprise at all, because both YUE & MIN ancestry were neighbours, they form the "malayo-polynesian" but obviously from different ancestry. Samoan, Tongan, Maori are direct descendent of AMIS tribe and their culture are the same as PAIWAN tribe, but not Atayal tribe, Atayal tribe would be the same origin as ancient VIETNAMESE, and IBAN, they are all HEADHUNTING CANNIBAL TRIBES! You forgot about the reason why they kept fanning out, they were eager to start their own tribe and create distance from the headhuntersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-88821300584486477482018-05-30T20:02:32.260+02:002018-05-30T20:02:32.260+02:00there were MORIORI and the Australian aborginal...there were MORIORI and the Australian aborginal's cousin in NZ before the Maori, Moriori was genocided by the Maori, even they share similar genetics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64806917200014223622018-05-30T20:01:41.555+02:002018-05-30T20:01:41.555+02:00STUPIEST ARTICLE EVER! TAIWAN AND PHILLIPINES IS F...STUPIEST ARTICLE EVER! TAIWAN AND PHILLIPINES IS FAR APART FROM EACH OTHER? WTF? have you not heard the polynesian's ancestors - aborginals of taiwan were the greatest mariner in the world? they were living on both mainland china later became the MIN people and Min Viet people in 200BCE, and Taiwan, also Norther Phillipines in 4000BCE-2000BCE, fanned out, some even went to Vietnam, expanded all over southeast Asia, then fanned out further to colonise the entire Pacific, micronesia, even Indian ocean Madagascar. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-80528643002924538982016-04-06T15:12:34.058+02:002016-04-06T15:12:34.058+02:00You're most welcome: the most important aspect...You're most welcome: the most important aspect of all this type of research is, IMO, that the relevant peoples get to know of it and that way better understand their own roots. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-27972185041090264392016-04-06T14:52:30.994+02:002016-04-06T14:52:30.994+02:00Thanks Mr Maju. I am original iban tribes Thanks Mr Maju. I am original iban tribes Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184487251631906612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-41812868130751532412014-12-18T05:37:12.284+01:002014-12-18T05:37:12.284+01:00New Zealand was uninhabited until the arrival of P...New Zealand was uninhabited until the arrival of Polynesians. Not sure where you read that but it's simply impossible: there was nobody there before c. 1200 CE. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-69597968119666996412014-12-17T04:49:25.995+01:002014-12-17T04:49:25.995+01:00Some reserch iban people is origin from new zealan...Some reserch iban people is origin from new zealand. It true?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184487251631906612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-38796103471617388722011-09-24T00:34:27.619+02:002011-09-24T00:34:27.619+02:00According to the iban pilgrimage from Yunnan, in C...According to the iban pilgrimage from Yunnan, in China from Yunnan people move le iban covers Indochina Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand from Indochina Iban migrated to Barr Xinor Barr Chin (Malaya) Malay land known today, from Malaya Iban people move to the islands of Sumatra and Borneo. According to myth, the pilgrimage to the iban mainland or Southeast Asia is caused by the world's great flood. Iban are known as "Master of Language" by the world. Prof. Derek Freeman was one of the researchers among the Iban language that is Master of the Iban language . Prof. Derek Freeman also stated that The Iban good at using language, in every line, to create and build a poem with a beautiful, wise in choosing and arranging sentences sereta have many types of poetry that uses the appropriate sentence arrangement with the sound, as used in poems and prose in English. The Iban who have their own language, the Bahasa Iban, Iban language is different in each place not only in Sarawak but in Kalimantan, Sulawesi, West Malaysian and Brunei. Iban language is the language of a uniform (homogenous). Dayak-Iban society is one of the natives races in Malaysia which has a system of writing called 'Turai. It has no less than 59 letters that represent sounds, such as Roman letters written references. The Iban have a tradition of 'betusut' or examine the lineage of descent. Through this tradition descent they can refer up to 20 generations earlier with an amazing degree of accuracy and also record important events. An important event in the history of the Iban is the 'Battle of the Belting Maro' (1849), which is the first largest ethnic fighting against colonial in nature Iban of Borneo, where they break the colonial advance of the attacks "Ngayau" [Headhunter] and bring back the head of a beheaded enemy.Melodramaticsfoolshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10168096982230668738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-82793083874529551202011-09-24T00:25:15.601+02:002011-09-24T00:25:15.601+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Melodramaticsfoolshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10168096982230668738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-67948278153781026362011-05-21T16:47:11.079+02:002011-05-21T16:47:11.079+02:00M168 > P143 > M89 > L15 > M9 > M214...M168 > P143 > M89 > L15 > M9 > M214 > M175 > P31<br /><br />NatGeo YDNA markers for a typical aborigine (Dusun) from North Borneo. That Halpgroup O2(P31).karabohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01841174699498472133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-27108955429571769192011-04-22T16:39:58.540+02:002011-04-22T16:39:58.540+02:00http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2011/04/h...http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2011/04/haplogroup-o3-downstream-structure.htmlMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-41485820748215421922011-04-22T09:36:33.298+02:002011-04-22T09:36:33.298+02:00"Any idea on how does that apply to the discu..."Any idea on how does that apply to the discussion?" <br /><br />We won't know until we can work out the new tree. I've not been able to do so with the limited information in the abstract. However I'm reasonably confident that O3 will not be SE Asian in origin.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-7906648534311593972011-04-21T21:36:07.467+02:002011-04-21T21:36:07.467+02:00Thanks for the download link, Natsuya. :)
Any ide...Thanks for the download link, Natsuya. :)<br /><br />Any idea on how does that apply to the discussion?Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-73021481596863185302011-04-21T15:30:18.688+02:002011-04-21T15:30:18.688+02:00Maju, check this out!
Abstract:
http://ranhaer.co...Maju, check this out!<br /><br />Abstract:<br />http://ranhaer.com/thread-15255-1-1.html<br />The full paper:<br />http://ranhaer.com/viewthread.php?tid=15255&page=1#pid223368<br /><br />An updated tree of Y-chromosome Haplogroup O and revised phylogenetic positions of mutations P164 and PK4<br /><br />Shi Yan et al.<br /><br />Y-chromosome Haplogroup O is the dominant lineage of East Asians, comprising more than a quarter of all males on the world; however, its internal phylogeny remains insufficiently investigated. In this study, we determined the phylogenetic position of recently defined markers (L127, KL1, KL2, P164, and PK4) in the background of Haplogroup O. In the revised tree, subgroup O3a-M324 is divided into two main subclades, O3a1-L127 and O3a2-P201, covering about 20 and 35% of Han Chinese people, respectively. The marker P164 is corrected from a downstream site of M7 to upstream of M134 and parallel to M7 and M159. The marker PK4 is also relocated from downstream of M88 to upstream of M95, separating the former O2* into two parts. This revision evidently improved the resolving power of Y-chromosome phylogeny in East Asia.Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-64184441015308798602011-02-14T01:24:31.110+01:002011-02-14T01:24:31.110+01:00Thanks for the links. Dienekes has already blogge...Thanks for the links. Dienekes has already blogged on the paper, and pointed out some deficiencies. I've also posted comments there. From the second link: <br /><br />"'Although our results throw out the likelihood of any maternal ancestry in Taiwan for the Polynesians, they don't preclude the possibility of a Taiwanese linguistic or cultural influence on the Bismarck Archipelago at that time,' explains Professor Richards". <br /><br />But then contradict themselves: <br /><br />"'In fact, some minor mitochondrial lineages back up this idea'". <br /><br />In fact, as I've always maintained: <br /><br />"'Our study of the mtDNA evidence shows the interactions between the islands of Southeast Asia and the Pacific was far more complex than previous accounts tended to suggest and it paves the way for new theories of the spread of Austronesian languages'". <br /><br />Not really so new. Journalistic exaggeration.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-62555001054823250312011-02-13T14:07:15.680+01:002011-02-13T14:07:15.680+01:00Another paper on Austronesian genetics has seen li...Another paper on Austronesian genetics has seen light these days but it's PPV for six months so I'm in no condition to discuss it. <br /><br />Yet I imagine you'd be interested: <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.01.009" rel="nofollow">Soares et al., 2011. AJHG</a>. <br /><br />It's also commented <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110203124726.htm" rel="nofollow">at SD</a>. <br /><br />Most interestingly both abstract and press release suggest that there had been a pre-Austronesian SE Asian colonization up to the Bismarks, population that was then "Austronesized" cultural and linguistically.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-36877253072736562822011-02-08T05:47:43.169+01:002011-02-08T05:47:43.169+01:00"O2a was considered pre-Austronesian by Karaf..."O2a was considered pre-Austronesian by Karafet, as was O3*(xO3a3)". <br /><br />And by me, for what it's worth. I'm sure it expanded with the Austro-Asiatic-speaking people. <br /><br />"It's plausible therefore that Y-DNA-wise the Iban are almost 100% pre-Austronesians who speak an Austronesian language". <br /><br />But it's more likely that the majority arrived in Borneo with the Austronesians. Especially seeing that C3 is present. O2a came from Sumatra, O3 from the SE Asian mainland and O1 is the basic original Austronesian Y-hap. <br /><br />"C3 is not a 'Chinese lineage' as much as a NE Asian one" <br /><br />It's certainly not an SE Asian haplogroup. <br /><br />"Yet there is also some C3 in SE Asia" <br /><br />Yes, but almost certainly a relatively recent arrival. Perhaps it came south as early as the early Chinese Neolithic though.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-56728089174710833982011-02-08T05:16:16.773+01:002011-02-08T05:16:16.773+01:00This regardless of C3...
C3 is not a "Chine...This regardless of C3... <br /><br />C3 is not a "Chinese lineage" as much as a NE Asian one (Chinese have frequencies under 10% normally, south of Manchuria at least). Yet there is also some C3 in SE Asia, at least that is what <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haplogrupo_C3_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG" rel="nofollow">this map</a> suggests (seemingly based on Zhong 2010, ppv). It should be C3d (M407).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-29034566219459489112011-02-08T05:06:53.707+01:002011-02-08T05:06:53.707+01:00Well spotted Terry. So the Iban have C3 while regu...Well spotted Terry. So the Iban have C3 while regular Borneo people have C*(xC2,C3). <br /><br />Also the Iban have much greater apportion of O2a than regular Borneo people. O2a was considered pre-Austronesian by Karafet, as was O3*(xO3a3). <br /><br />It's plausible therefore that Y-DNA-wise the Iban are almost 100% pre-Austronesians who speak an Austronesian language.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-78627629746169338612011-02-08T04:40:35.029+01:002011-02-08T04:40:35.029+01:00"Let's compare the Y-DNA data of Borneo a..."Let's compare the Y-DNA data of Borneo according to Karafet et al. 2010" <br /><br />Interesting. The current paper has the C as being C3. C(xC3,C2, etc) makes sense. C3, being a Chinese haplogroup, seems unlikely in any isolated Borneo population. Unless it's a recent arrival. The other variations in haplogroup proportions are just what we would expect in a population spread through a fairly large, jungle-clad, mountainous island.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-78733032714797655902011-02-07T22:04:12.079+01:002011-02-07T22:04:12.079+01:00We all know that Iban people live in western part ...We all know that Iban people live in western part of Borneo. Let's compare the Y-DNA data of Borneo according to Karafet et al. 2010:<br /><br />Borneo(n=86, Karafet 2010)<br />19/86 = C-RPS4Y*(xC2-M38, C3-M217)<br />2/86 = F-P14*<br />1/86 = H1-M52<br />5/86 = KMNOPS-M526*<br />14/86 = O3a3-P201*(xM7, M134)<br />17/86 = O3a3b-M7<br />1/86 = O1a-M119*(xP203, M110)<br />2/86 = O1a1-P203<br />5/86 = O1a2-M110<br />18/86 = O2a-M95*(xO2a1-M111)<br />1/86 = R2a-M124<br />1/86 = R1a1a-M17<br /><br />http://ranhaer.com/viewthread.php?tid=14800&page=1#pid218464Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-88559928159106764752011-02-06T05:00:03.291+01:002011-02-06T05:00:03.291+01:00"This is unprecedented in all the history of ..."This is unprecedented in all the history of Humankind and should lead us to a totally new stage: a radically democratic one". <br /><br />I tend to agree although I'm a bit sceptical. <br /><br />"Not so long ago you were arguing for exactly the opposite: that this route was not used because it shows evidence of H. erectus and H. floresiensis survival". <br /><br />I've partly changed my mind. I've recently noticed that at times of extremely low sea level Australia stretches out considerably towards the string of islands to the southwest of Timor. Australia and the nearest of those islands are separated by, roughly, 75 km. Still a formidable crossing, but perhaps the first Australians were castaways blown off course while travelling between the much more closely spaced islands southwest of Timor. Such a route would explain the survival of the Hobbits on Flores. Flores was a dead end, not on the main route to Australia. But I'd bet big money that Flores formed part of the route mtDNA M and Y-hap K took to New Guinea. That still leaves the problem of H. erectus of Java and the Komodo dragon. <br /><br />"Why did nobody draw a 'Wallace line' of sorts West of Borneo?" <br /><br />Because the separation between placentals and marsupials is much more significant. Many smaller mammals crossed to Borneo. Even the orangutan. The only conclusion I can come to regarding Sundaland is that, apart from Java, Sumatra and the Malay Peninsular, it was never one interconnected landmass. Elsewhere just a scattering of islands managed to emerge. However that would have been a perfect region to learn how to travel from one island to another by boat. As, presumably would have been at least parts of the Yellow Sea, the East China Sea and the South China Sea. <br /><br />"That should not be any obstacle for tigers, for instance". <br /><br />But it probably limited the human population of Borneo until the Neolithic. The clearing of the jungle for agriculture provided a living for a greater number of people.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023805782808412230.post-74548545540508494072011-02-05T14:17:25.845+01:002011-02-05T14:17:25.845+01:00I'm not so "wise" about Dayak ethnol...I'm not so "wise" about Dayak ethnology, so I am considering all the info on Dayaks I have at hand. <br /><br />"Implies very strongly that through most of the past it has been easier to get to Flores than to Borneo".<br /><br />Why nobody has raised this "obvious" issue before you did? Looks like something is amiss. <br /><br />Why did nobody draw a "Wallace line" of sorts West of Borneo?<br /><br />"Dense tropical rainforest?"<br /><br />That should not be any obstacle for tigers, for instance.<br /><br />"... humans may have reached Australia via Sumatra, Java, Bali and via Sumba to Timor and Australia. In other words via Nusa Tengarra".<br /><br />Not so long ago you were arguing for exactly the opposite: that this route was not used because it shows evidence of H. erectus and H. floresiensis survival. <br /><br />"But history tells us that revolutions very seldom go smoothly. Unscrupulous individuals wait in the wings to take over when the time is ripe".<br /><br />Nearly all Revolutions have their Thermidor... but the important thing is not the reaction, which is powerless in the long run and just a product of panic, but the continuity along time of the revolutionary process. Napoleon did not win nor did his even more reactionary enemies... the Revolution succeeded in the end.<br /><br />Defeat after defeat, till final victory!<br /><br />"I see danger looming in the USA".<br /><br />I do too. But I also reckon it is only its own self-destruction. <br /><br />We must fight against it, of course, but they are powerless because they cannot deliver to the people and, if you cannot deliver, you will be deposed sooner than later. <br /><br />Medicine men who are unable to muster rain (or whatever they promise) year after year... do not keep their influence on the community. People is not that stupid.<br /><br />Also even such a shadowy character as Z. Brzezinski reckons that, while governments can now gather and manage a lot more info than before, people also has much wider access to info and has become "globally aware" and is organizing itself. <br /><br />This is unprecedented in all the history of Humankind and should lead us to a totally new stage: a radically democratic one.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com